writewyattuk

Studying the big Interrobang‽ theory – in conversation with Dunstan Bruce

Posted on March 30, 2018 by writewyattuk

Bang On: Griff, Dunstan and Harry, collectively known as Interrobang‽

By the time I picked up the phone to reach Dunstan Bruce, I’d given the eponymous LP by his new band Interrobang‽ nigh on three listens, and was loving it. In the words of the mighty Stump – somewhat channeling dolphins in late-80s cult indie hit, Buffalo – ‘Exclamation mark, click-click-click …’

I say nearly three listens because our agreed time-slot crept up on me like mid-life itself (tick-tock, tick-tock) before I could get to the album’s climax, hitting pause and dialling his number after blasting out track 12 of 14, Billingham, a love letter of sorts to his County Durham hometown. It’s not obviously a love letter. The chorus makes that plain. As he puts it on the record, ‘We’ll never see eye to eye, oh Billingham,’ adding, ‘You don’t even know where you are!’

It’s been a while since my last visit to that part of Teesside, getting on for 15 years, taking me back to my newspaper days, reporting on an FA Cup preliminary-round tie between Billingham Synthonia and Chorley in August 2003. To paraphrase yer man, ‘I’ve never seen ICI’ since, but liked the Synners’ Central Avenue base well enough, and folk were definitely friendly. I guess it’s different if it’s the place you spent difficult formative years though. Maybe it’s just kind of complicated.

“It is, yeah. Well, you know what it’s like, the place you’re from … how that relationship is.”

I won’t say much more, hoping you find out for yourselves, but Billingham is one of many highlights on a blisteringly-delivered debut LP, with vocalist Dunstan, drummer Harry ‘Daz’ Hamer (who served alongside ‘Dunst’ in Chumbawamba throughout the band’s 1982-2004 period) and guitarist Stephen ‘Griff’ Griffin (ex-Regular Fries) on top form. Does Brighton-based Dunstan still regularly revisit his North-East roots?

“I do. My Mum and sister live there. I pop up and see them every now and again.”

When I called he was at home on the South coast, ‘folding lyric booklets for the tour’. And I mentioned how he came up in my recent interview with fellow Brighton-based frontman Mark Chadwick, of The Levellers, for whom he made 2012 documentary film A Curious Life.

“Chumbawamba played with The Levellers back in the ‘90s, so I knew them from way back. We had a lot in common, both with something to say in our music and vilified by the music press for one reason or another. We were fighting in the same corner, I suppose. I later had the opportunity to do some work with them, turning that into a documentary.”

How did he get involved in films?

“My partner, Daisy Asquith, is a filmmaker, and we set up a production company about 10 years ago. I started helping her produce films, then got an opportunity to go to China with Sham 69, the first thing I directed.”

Ah, I was intrigued by that project, This Band Is So Gorgeous, following the group as they became ‘the first British punk band to tour China’.

“That you cannot see! There are now two Sham 69s, one of whom owns the music and the other of whom don’t. I was stopped from releasing the film because Jimmy Pursey didn’t want it to come out, as it wasn’t about his Sham 69. There’s now an official and original Sham 69, and I got caught in the middle … through no fault of my own.”

It all gets a bit messy with these outfits sometimes, and doesn’t always end with big hugs all around, seemingly getting messier on the scale from The Beat through to UB40 …

“Yeah … and Buck’s Fizz.”

Well, they were always going to be next on my list, I suggested. Getting back on subject though, there’s a feature-length history of Chumbawamba out there too, the splendidly-titled, Well Done, Now Sod Off, having gone down well at Leeds’ International Film Festival in 2000, winning an audience prize. And true to the band’s ethos, it was self-released and sold via their own website, the group opting for DVD-R rather than a silver, factory-pressed DVD. But I’m trying to avoid mentioning Chumbawamba too early in the conversation.

Am I right in thinking Dunst was also involved with Sound It Out, the acclaimed 2011 documentary about the ‘last surviving vinyl record store in his native Teesside’?

“I had a very small involvement, but Jeanie Finlay, who made it, very kindly gave me an executive producer credit.”

His film-making empire is no longer based at The Levellers’ Metway HQ in Brighton, but he’s still nearby, although there’s a link more in line with Chumbawamba’s Yorkshire roots with his new band.

“I’m in Brighton while Griff and Harry are in Leeds, and I used to live there, so I’ve got good reason to go back.”

Do they tend to send music files to each other via the internet then?

“That’s how we started. Griff was sending musical ideas and I was putting vocals over the top, cut it up then send it back, then he’d re-record and so on. Then we got into a room and developed it from there.”

Dunstan, Griff and Harry describe themselves as ‘hard-faced macho dandies shouting about the intellectual’s mid-life crisis, irrelevance with relevance, and that relentless dream of revolution!’ In so doing, ‘Dunstan’s laid-bare confessional of sorts is perfectly accompanied by Griff’s sharp-staccato guitar loops and Harry’s tight as a squirrel’s ass drums.’ And altogether it’s deemed, ‘Perfect stuff for any self-respecting chin-stoking-pogo-er with a relentless tendency for reflection and revolution’.

The frontman himself adds, “We came together as Interrobang‽ with a clear vision to create something that is current and relevant; something that speaks to our generation who grew up in the shadow of punk, with hopes and dreams, full of rebellion. What happened to that spark? How do we express our anger now? How relevant are we? How do we make ourselves heard and where do we fit in now? This isn’t comfortable or retro; we reject wholeheartedly the idea of nostalgia, we refuse to live in the past, there’s no misty-eyed looking back; this is all forward, forward motion.”

That certainly comes across on their explosive first album, which grips you from the moment they launch into the introductory Here Now – with Dunstan’s spoken-word delivery as sharp as his suits throughout – and The Inclement Weather, his body clock frantically ticking away on this life journey. This is poetry as a life-force, the sound of the words and his enunciation perfectly complemented by Griff and Harry’s backing vox and instrumentation, each integral to a fulsome sonic experience.

On Asking for a Friend our frontman sounds like Salford poet Mike Garry fronting The Blue Aeroplanes, getting with the programme as he asks, ‘I haven’t actually checked, but is this trending yet?‘ Then, for Are You Ready, People? we change direction around the minute-mark, the call-and-response shouty vocals keeping the energy levels topped up.

Another gear is found on Mad as Hell, our man venting his spleen dramatically, forcefully proclaiming, ‘I’m sick to death of being asked to keep calm,’ over Diggle and Shelley-like guitar. But if that’s about Dunst being ‘angry, still angry’, there’s a surprising calmness to Curmudgeon, for all its underlying tension. It’s more reflective than you’d expect, but all the more powerful for it, our host exuding understanding as he paints a picture of, ‘A grumpy curmudgeon in a state of high dudgeon.’

For Music of the Gross, Griff is back to the fore with a wondrous six-string assault on the senses, on the album’s most Fall-like song. And by the time I reach Taciturn I realise they never overstay their welcome, another track done and dusted before three minutes are up. Then, on Do You Remember? Dunstan takes us all back again, this time borrowing from The Mekons’ mighty ’78 moment, Where Were You?

For Love It All, we get more Cooper Clarkesque one-liners, DB telling us, ‘I’ve got to tell you at this point, I never craved to be an astronaut. I was always too down to earth (for what it’s worth).’ And while we’re talking word mastery, Harry’s insistent beat sets up an echo of the Buzzcocks’ Everybody’s Happy Nowadays on Based on a True Story, Dunst confiding, ‘I’m not too scared to admit I think about my own obituary. I contemplate its contents consistently, it comes with the territory. There’s a playlist written in my head, says all there is to be said about me. Poignant, pithy, full of prose, that will bring this life to a close, precisely.‘ Genius.

It’s at that point that we head off to Billingham, the cry going out, ‘Man overboard, abandon hope!‘ And then we’re away on two more high-points, the spirit of the concept at this album’s heart there on Breathe, Dunstan soul-searching, asking, ‘If it’s a question of curiosity, what’s gonna happen when I hit 60? Will I still be hungry? Will I still be angry? And will I still have the energy?‘ Then, Griff and Harry are tight as hell as we depart in style in punk rock riff regality on Am I Invisible Yet? But before he becomes a memory, our man poignantly points out, ‘This is someone who was someone once‘.

On their website, the band mention a ‘mood-board’ of influences. and I tell my interviewee I’m not surprised to find Wire, Dr Feelgood and The Fall hanging there. What’s more, I tell him I hear late ‘70s Pete Shelley on something like Mad as Hell, and the afore-mentioned John Cooper Clarke there and thereabouts.

“Oh wow, well, that’s what I grew up with.”

He adds to that initial list names like Gang of Four, Grinderman, Sonic Youth, Art Brut, MC5, Fugazi, and ‘that sort of thing’. Meanwhile, I mention those Mekons signposts on Do You Remember? and ask how aware he was of chenneling that band – another with Leeds roots. His response? “Oh, of course. I rip that line off! I make no denial of that. We have Mekons connections, and Interrobang‽ played Mekonville, while Jon Langford’s a fan of what we’re doing.”

Getting back to those band descriptions, they also call themselves an ‘angry motorik loop-driven post-punk rock three-piece,’ creating their ‘very own agit-punk-funkstorm,’ citing an ‘angular, taut, urgent, pulsating and intense’ vibe, ‘tight, terse and to the point’. I should try adding my own description, but they put it so well.

I can see all that, I tell him, but will he allow me to let on to the world that this is – for all intents and purposes – a concept album?

“Yes, of course. It is, weirdly, a concept album. You’re totally right – you busted me!”

While the concept in this case is the midlife crisis, it’s a far more pro-active one. Don’t expect Dunstan to go out and get a tattoo, buy a Harley Davidson, or embark on some extra-marital affair. For him, it seems to be more about frustration that – for all those youthful ideals – things haven’t really moved on, politically, with this performer clearly not yet willing to slip into middle-age.

“What happened was that I started writing this around about when I turned 50, thinking about how I fitted into the world, what my role was, and what you could possibly achieve as a 50-something Dad and what you’re doing with your life. Do you still have a voice? And are you relevant? Songs like Am I Invisible Yet? are about trying to deal with becoming less and less relevant as you get older.”

Well, I’ve just hit 50, and I certainly get it. But when he talks about his inner Curmudgeon, ‘not much of a talker,’ is that really him?

“That’s about my Dad, and what I might have inherited from him. I’ve spent a lifetime battling that and now I’ve reached a point where … basically, that song’s about my dad dying and what happened then.

“It was quite a cathartic thing and helped bring a little bit of closure to my relationship with him. He died in the ‘90s, and that made me think about my relationship with him, and how he was from another generation and all he was doing was trying his best. He had a hard childhood and was of an age where Dads were not that pleasant … and he felt incredibly guilty about that.”

Dunstan, whose father was a fireman in Billingham, has teenage children of his own these days, aged 13 and 15, who he reckons are, ‘happy but suitably unimpressed with what I’m doing!’

Well, I reckon they’ll appreciate his worth soon enough, and while I’m at it, there are some neat post-punk style riffs here. How do they write though, so far apart? What comes first?

“I started writing when me and Griff had the idea, him thinking he’d do the music, providing me with the sounds. I told him what I wanted and he really wanted to engage with it and concentrate on that. We’ve always given each other freedom – he never questions what I write, and I don’t question what he comes up with. We both have a respect for each other’s creativity. The hard bit is getting it all together.”

Cafe Society: Dunstan, Harry and Griff take a break from their labours,

You were working on a spoken-word existential project before, I believe.

“Yeah, I did that because Interrobang‽ couldn’t necessarily play all the time, so I had that outlet, a different way of presenting it – the same sort of thing but done a different way, which I think nowadays you can sort of do. I didn’t feel restricted by the band line-up.”

It certainly works in this form too, and while I’ve already mentioned JCC or fellow Salfordian performance poet Mike Garry guesting with The Blue Aeroplanes, elsewhere it could be Mark E. Smith fronting Dr Feelgood. In short, it’s right up my street. I love the name too, and can’t believe that was still on the shelf, as it were.

“Well, we had to use it with the symbol at the end. We do occasionally get messages for a rap band from Liverpool and possibly another in America, something I hadn’t realised at the time.”

So is it having the interrobang at the end of the interrobang that defines you?

“Yeah! And I love that symbol. It was that, graphically, that attracted me in the first place, the idea of seeing that everywhere. Then, finding the dictionary definition – the combination of the question mark and exclamation mark just seemed perfect for what we were trying to do, being appalled by, and at the same time questioning, the state of the world. It’s the perfect combination and works really well for what we’re doing and what I’m saying.”

That definition, by the way, is of a ‘non-standard punctuation mark used in various written languages and intended to combine the functions of the question mark and exclamation mark (known in printers’ and programmers’ jargon as the ‘bang’). A sentence ending with an interrobang asks a question in an excited manner, expresses excitement or disbelief in the form of a question, or asks a rhetorical question. For example: What‽ What the fuck‽’

While Dunstan has made it clear he’s not one to dwell on the past, almost inevitably I ask about his past in Chumbawamba, a band described in the Interrobang‽ blurb as an ‘anarcho-pop-cabaret troupe’. Besides, it is him sharing vocals on 1997 hit, Tubthumping.

“I totally embrace that, and I’m proud of that. It allowed us to do a lot of things as a band that we’d always dreamed of doing, having that platform, being able to say something in the mainstream media. It was a wonderful opportunity and led on to other things. That was about songs we wrote in our 20s, while we’re trying to talk to this generation, although a lot of those people grew up in the shadow of punk. A lot of our references are from the past, but what we’re saying is contemporary.”

There’s a quote from Interrobang‽ saying, ‘We all know by now that just singing a politically-righteous song isn’t going to change the world. In fact, as some band back in the ’80’s once said, ‘The music is not a threat; action that music inspires can be a threat.’ With that in mind, it seems that this LP is on some levels an extension of Tubthumping. If that was about the resilience of the ordinary man, perhaps this album is about hitting back, not just putting up with constant knocks.

“That’s a good way of looking at it. A nice connection. I like that idea.”

Lining Up: Dunstan, Griff and Harry take their places and move on up

And how does this compare his pre-Chumbawamba existence in Men in a Suitcase?

“Ha! That was just about being inspired by punk and that whole idea that anybody could be in a band, anyone can do it – stop being impressed by musicianship and the fact that there’s a distance between bands and audience, get up there and do it yourself. Men in a Suitcase was really just one of my first fumbling attempts to get up on a stage, that desire to get up there and create something.”

What’s more, how does it work live, if he’s not playing an instrument? There’s no doubting the power of the voices, but most trios of note at least involve guitar, bass and drums.

“Well, the backing vocals are equally important. There’s no bassist – Griff is doing the thing with loops – putting guitars on top of guitars. We did try rehearsing with a bassist a couple of times and it just didn’t work. It wasn’t right. We were so used to not having a bassist that we couldn’t get it to feel comfortable. We knew the sound we wanted, and it would have been pointless to muddy it up with other instruments.”

My main excuse for talking to Dunstan was his band’s show at The Yorkshire House in Parliament Street, Lancaster, on Wednesday, April 4th, profits going to the Imagine Independence mental health charity (for tickets and more details follow this Facebook link). In fact, there’s a charity aspect to all the Spring tour dates, mostly for homeless projects. And as Lancaster show organiser Malika Mezeli put it, mental health issues are ‘often a prerequisite for being homeless.’

So, an obvious question maybe, but why the link to homeless charities?

“I do a lot of stuff down in Brighton, outreach work, out on the streets, especially in cold weather, handing out food and drink to homeless people. I’ve been doing that quite a while, and although it’s great to be in a band, going around playing rock’n’roll, It felt like it could be something more than that.

“Once upon a time I’d be up on a stage in front of thousands, or on television where millions would be watching. Now I could be playing in a pub to 50 people somewhere but it’s just as important to use that opportunity.

“Gigs are a place where people come together and have this feeling of communality, and that can be just as important as actually watching a band, having that experience. So it’s a good opportunity to actually say something that’s a bit more than just playing rock’n’roll.”

Support at Lancaster is from four-piece Year of Birds, featuring Oli Heffernan and Danielle Johnson, both also with Anglo-Dutch outfit King Champion Sounds, a band cherished by this blogger (with a review of their March 2017 show at The Continental in Preston here).

”They’re doing three or four of the Northern gigs. I really wanted to not have gigs that were just men on stage. We wanted women visible. We’re an all-male outfit and I didn’t want every gig to be awash with men. And I think Danielle’s a complete and utter inspiration. I love her attitude towards the industry and what she’s doing. It’s great.”

While Dunstan’s former band met on the West Leeds squatting scene in the early ‘80s, there’s a strong East Lancs link too, founder-members Allan ‘Boff’ Whalley and Nigel Hunter, aka Danbert Nobacon (also remembered for tipping an ice bucket over Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott at the 1998 Brit Awards) coming from Burnley, as was the case with fellow early recruits Lou Watts and Alice Nutter. And that’s kind of relevant seeing as the Interrobang‽ tour opens in nearby Todmorden, supported by Liines, just across the county border.

As it was, Dunstan, Harry, Alice and Danbert left Chumbawamba in 2004, although the outfit continued until 2012, reaching 30 years together. Is Dunstan still in touch with them all?

“Yes, in fact, one of the successes of Chumbawamba is that we’re still really good friends and we all still have projects that maybe overlap, working in the same sort of world.”

And I guess I shouldn’t really be surprised that members of the band ended up deeply ensconced in the arts – as film-makers, in art, acting, playwrights, novels, and so on.

“Exactly that, yeah.”

Last I heard of, Boff (interviewed for these pages back in January 2014, with a link to that feature here) had pulled out – along with Nadine Shah – of an appearance at this summer’s Great Exhibition of the North on Tyneside, being staged with £5m from the Government’s Northern Powerhouse fund, with his Commoners’ Choir, protesting at event sponsorship from BAe Systems, unhappy with the firm’s latest arms deal with Saudi Arabia. It seems that they all still have that same campaigning edge, as I put it to Dunstan.

“Yeah, and Danbert’s over in America, with his own world of politics, activism, music and art. It’s great seeing people fighting their own battles with their own organisations, whatever they’re doing.

“And it’s important to be creative in the midst of all the shit. That’s a really powerful thing.”

Three’s Company: Interrobang‽ could well be coming to a town near you this Spring.

The 14-track self-titled Interrobang‽ debut album is out on March 30 in a trifold digipak CD with eight-page booklet. You can also order a limited-edition deluxe LP with gatefold sleeve and coloured vinyl via independent record stores, with a small amount available on the Spring tour. The LP is also digitally available from regular download and streaming platforms.

Interrobang‽ UK Spring tour dates: Fri March 30 – Todmorden Golden Lion, Sat March 31 – Wellingborough Horseshoe Inn, Sun April 1 – Newport Le Pub, Mon April 2 – Bristol Louisiana, Tue April 3 – Leeds Brudenell, Wed April 4 – Lancaster The Yorkshire House, Thu April 5 – Newcastle Cluny 2, Fri April 6 – Nottingham Maze, Sat April 7 – Middlesbrough Westgarth, Sun April 8 – Birmingham Centrala, Mon April 9 – Manchester Jimmy’s, Tue April 10 – Milton Keynes Crauford Arms, Wed April 11 – Brighton Prince Albert, Thu April 12 – London The Islington, Fri April 13 – Ramsgate Music Hall, Sat April 14 – Scunthorpe Cafe Independent. For more info head to the official band website and keep in touch via Facebook and Twitter.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Music | Tagged Alice Nutter, Billingham, Boff Whalley, Brighton, Chumbawamba, Daisy Asquith, Danbert Nobacon, Dunstan Bruce, Interrobang, Lancaster, Leeds, Mark Chadwick, Sham 69, The Levellers, Tubthumping | 1 Comment

Symptomatic for the People – researching The Common Cold with Ajay Saggar

Posted on March 22, 2018 by writewyattuk

Cold Remedies: The Common Cold, kraut-rocking up and down your way this May

While his working hours are spent at renowned Amsterdam concert venue The Paradiso, producer, sound engineer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Ajay Saggar remains proud of his Lancashire past, 30-plus years after his introduction to the North West indie scene while promoting gigs as a Lancaster University student.

Ajay soon became a key player on the Preston front, proving integral to John Peel favourites Dandelion Adventure, alongside Marcus Parnell, the band’s vocalist known back then as ‘Fat Mark’ (he’s not, by the way).

That spell kick-started a busy alternative career in underground music for Ajay, ultimately taking him to the Netherlands. But he was never above returning to the area where he made his name, and in October 2016 was back on stage with Marcus for the first time in three decades at The Continental in Preston, alongside former Cornershop drummer Dave Chambers, performing as The Common Cold.

They weren’t to be sneezed at that night, putting in a determined, fuelled set in the snug, letting rip on two extended kraut-rock jams as part of Tuff Life Boogie’s John Peel festival tribute, UnPeeled. While I thought at the time that might just have been a brief trip down memory lane, it appears that the project secretly moved forward from there. And now they have an LP coming, released via the esteemed team at Church Street’s legendary Action Records, whose past releases have not only incuded Dandelion Adventure, but also The Boo Radleys, Fi-Lo Radio, The Fall, and even a solo venture featuring the latter’s legendary frontman, Ajay’s recently-departed hero and close friend, Mark E. Smith.

It’s a winner too, with Shut Up! Yo Liberals! out on Friday, May 4th, The Common Cold set to play 10 shows on 10 nights to promote it, the original trio joined by second drummer Scrub (Roland Jones, formerly with Preston’s Big Red Bus) and teenage bass player Jack Harkins (who also features with Ludovico). And it’s fair to say Ajay’s excited about the prospect, as I found out first-hand when I caught him during a brief break from his day-job earlier this week. Any big-name visitors at the Paradiso at present?

“Oh, it’s never ending! We’re celebrating our 50^th year as a venue and next week marks the official anniversary, with a whole bunch of stuff lined up, and the roll-call of who’s coming through is amazing – 365 days a year of huge acts, small acts, and everything in between.”

In other words, check the website and find out for yourself. But he still manages the occasional return trip to Preston.

“Last time was recording for The Common Cold, to record Marcus’ vocals at the end of last summer. We did those two shows at the Conti …”

Low-slung Bass: Ajay Saggar wigs out at the Lady Owen Arms with Dandelion Adventure in 1990 (Photo: Greg Neate)

In my review of the first of those, the UnPeeled gig in 2016 (with a link here), I suggested they were ‘deliciously under-rehearsed,’ and noted the look of fear on Ajay’s face when the crowd requested ‘more!’ But as it worked out, that wasn’t to be the end of the story.

“I just felt from there we needed to take it a notch up and do something decent with it. Marcus was super-enthusiastic about it, so I wrote all the music and got the personnel together to play on it. The two-drummer thing was really important, and I’ve always loved that idea of having that powerhouse behind it.

“Scrub was up for it, and I asked Dave Chambers, but he was away the weekend we were recording. I also asked David (Blackwell) from The Lovely Eggs, and he was up for it, but had been ill and then had to start practising for their album sessions, so Daren Garratt (from Birmingham, ex-The Nightingales and The Fall) helped us. I wrote all the bass parts with programmed drums, visited Preston last Spring and we worked our asses off in a rehearsal room.”

They’ll be back in Preston for the last night of the tour, at The Ferret on Fylde Road this time. There’s a Lancaster link too, I see, visiting his old roots there, playing The Yorkshire House.

“Yeah, I felt it was important to do as many Lancashire shows as possible (they also play Darwen and Salford). The whole idea of getting this up and running for me was to play in an all-English band again, based around my musical roots – where I first played in a band and went to see so many other bands.”

You mention recording the bass parts, and I can hear your own identity coming through on tracks like the slow-building Napoleon’s Index Finger on the album – not least with that driving bass guitar.

“That was really important, especially with two drummers. It had to really fucking drive forward! It’s basically a Paul Hanley, Steve Hanley, Karl Burns kind of axis, which was so inspiring with The Fall back in the day. I don’t want to copy or recreate that, I want to do our own thing. But it’s important all the same. It’s the driving force of your life really, constantly discovering new things.

“You can’t get sucked into that morass of constantly putting out the same kind of thing. I can get bored really easily. If I’m not challenging myself and being creative, you get on to that circuit of where it comes too easy and you’re doing it by numbers. I don’t want that. I’ve never wanted that.”

Well, that’s something he can’t be accused of. Take a look, for example, at Ajay’s last three musical projects – The Common Cold, Deutsche Ashram and King Champion Sounds – all suggesting he’s keeping it fresh – with major scope between those projects.

“Well, there is a common thread. You’ll never get away from that, but I like to keep things fresh and that’s always been the case for myself.”

Last time we spoke, 18 months ago (with a link here), he mentioned his friendship with Marcus being borne out of a love of The Membranes. But there was another band they had in common – The Fall. And he became good friends with Mark E. Smith over time.

Hip Priests: Ajay Saggar with Mark E. Smith in 2013

“The Fall were the band that made me listen to music differently and really made me appreciate how the highest art form there was within the whole spectrum of art, and how it appeals to people all over the world in different ways. It ignites you and makes you excited. The Fall took that element of making music to a heightened level, with that combination of Mark’s poetic view of the world around him and his way of expressing that and keeping you on your toes when you listen.

“Then there were the musicians who stood the challenge of presenting Mark with a musical palette that would not only be a perfect foil to his voice and his lyrics but also keep the momentum going for the listener – keeping them challenged in what they were hearing. With that combination, you didn’t know what had hit your ears. This was music from a different planet, so fantastic.

“The thing with listening to Fall records, you think you know an album inside out, but every time I play Hex Enduction Hour or Grotesque, or whatever, from 20 or 30-plus years ago, I still hear new things, which is the greatest compliment you could pay to any band or musician.”

I mention at this point how so many people had different entry points for The Fall, and while, admittedly, I didn’t really get them at first, I went back and properly ‘discovered’ them via the period between The Frenz Experiment and Code: Selfish, despite that period not being seen among their finest moments in some circles.

“Well, that’s fantastic, and a great approach. Mark challenged himself and his group into where they were going with the whole thing. They never became lazy, because he wouldn’t let them. If they did, he’d kick their asses, keeping it fresh for himself and them.”

As he famously said, it could be him and your Granny playing bongos on there, and the group would still be The Fall.

“That’s it. And he’s probably with her right now, playing way up there. And that element of keeping things fresh is something that rubbed off on me. That ethic of keeping yourself challenged and on edge. If you think things are becoming too safe and you may be on to a winning formula, just break away and go in the opposite direction.”

At that point we wander off on to The Clash, and I mention how I could see that same ethos there, with the way they initially looked to a ‘year zero’ approach, however much they loved various past genres.

“Joe Strummer definitely had that going on. Whether it was their roots in West London, vibing off the dub and reggae scene or going to New York and vibing off the hip-hop and critical beats going down there, they had their ears to the ground and knew a good thing when it happened, realising the power of music in its different forms.

Action Painting: Preston’s Mecca for music lovers caught on canvas by Alastair Price

“They brought elements of all that into their own music, but essentially it’s Clash music. You hear it and know it’s The Clash – Strummer’s voice, Jones’ guitar, Simonon’s bass, and Headon’s brilliant drumming. It’s Clash music but with elements of all those things going on around them which they brought in. And as long as you then use that to enhance your own music, there’s nothing wrong with that.”

On to the Action Records link, and Ajay and the Lancashire store’s owner Gordon Gibson go back a long way. He mentions the importance of a Preston vibe with this new venture. Was it key to have Action involved, putting out the record via them?

“Absolutely, and Marcus goes back even longer with Gordon than I do, while Dave Chambers worked in Action. That was important, and I wanted to keep the whole project in Lancashire. It’s a Lancashire band, with Northern roots and with a Northern sound.

“It would have been easy to ask other labels to do it. There were chances of doing that. But I’ve known Gordon for eons and totally trust him, and in this day and age that’s something you need. He’s just somebody I can phone up or drop an email to ask advice on or help. He’s really honest and he’s really on it, which is why Mark E. Smith liked him too.”

As for the album itself, I was only three listens in at time of going to press, but already loving it, not least early stand-outs like The London Look, Stop the Traffic, and Half-Nelson Headlock, for which you’ll find promo video film links online, the afore-mentioned Napoloeon’s Index Finger, and the LP’s powerful closing statements, Pretty Julie and Body Language, the latter a mighty showcase for Marcus’ evocative poetic imagery. There’s definitely a Fall feel in places, plus all the frenetic energy characterising the early Happy Mondays and more recently Sleaford Mods, and plenty of that great sonic barrage King Champion Sounds provide. But don’t take my word for it. Find out for yourself.

So what’s the overriding message of Shut Up! Yo Liberals! then, Ajay?

“It’s definitely a call to arms, and I think it’s one of the best albums that will come out of the UK this year … and it’s coming out of the North! And the brilliant thing about working with Marcus again is that I think he’s one of the best lyricists in the UK. His knowledge of pop culture as such is enormous. In his viewpoint of a lot of things, he’s a man of the world and understands how things work and the difference between good and bad and right and wrong, and he’s not afraid to state things, with a fantastic poetic way of expressing things.”

But you best be quick, because there are only 300 copies of the vinyl, the first 100 copies including a hand-painted inner sleeve, a free badge, and other goodies via this link.

“Yeah, I said, ‘Look, let’s just make it, get it out, we’ll do a tour, then we’ll follow it up with something else in due course. The ideas are always there. This is our calling card, saying we’re on the map, we’re here, we’ve got something to offer, it’s bloody, bloody good – take it while you’ve got the chance! Then we’ll just move on.

“Art is not something that needs to be held on to for dear life. It’s always in flux. Things move and change. That’s the beauty of it, and we’re just a small element of that changing process. This is our contribution … for now, for this moment, for this instant! We’re saying, ‘Here it is, take it, immerse yourself in it, enjoy it, love it, get energy from it, and then we’ll move on. And that’s how we’re going to do the show. It’s going to be 10 shows in 10 days.”

Young in spirit as he and his band clearly all are – as suggested in that inspirational message – they’re all of a certain age, shall we say … except teenage bass player Jack Harkins, that is.

“Jack is a massive Stranglers fan, and when I heard that, I just said, ‘Just get him, bloody get him!”

Was that the idea of hiring someone who understands former writewyattuk interviewee Jean-Jacques Burnel‘s playing?

“That’s it. The bass sound I’ve always gone for has been Jean-Jacques Burnel crossed with Steve Hanley. The first single I ever bought was No More Heroes, the first album I got was Black and White, and the first band I ever saw was The Stranglers at Bridlington Spa on that tour.

“I started playing bass because of JJ – that gnarly growl I got from him, something Steve Hanley has as well. The only instructions were to learn the bass parts and make sure you get that Jean-Jacques Burnel sound. And Jack gets that. In fact, he still follows the band around the country.”

At this point, I tell Ajay about my own Stranglers link, involving the Scout Hut in my home village in rural Surrey where they practised in the early days. But we won’t go into all that again (try this link from five years ago for size).

It’s been a year since I last saw Ajay live, performing at the Conti in Preston with Amsterdam-based outfit King Champion Sounds, providing a fantastic soundtrack for the Man with a Movie Camera film during an amazing set at the Vernal Equinox festival (with my review here). While this is all going on, are King Champion Sounds on hold?

“No, I’m busting my ass recording a new album, having worked on the bass and drums late last autumn, while Jos (G.W. Sok) recorded his vocals a few weeks ago, I’ve laid down all the guitars and loads of other instruments.”

Walk Away: King Champion Sounds and visions in harmony at the Conti in Preston in March 2017

Working towards an autumn tour perhaps?

“Yeah! I’ve got the horn section coming in a couple of weeks, and the strong section coming in at the end of April. It’s all ticking along.”

How about Deutsche Ashram, your amazing ethereal, dreamy, other-worldly project alongside Dutch vocalist, Merinde Verbeek. What’s she up to right now?

“Erm, she’s downstairs in the coffee shop, working at the moment!”

Ah, great stuff. So will there be a new Deutsche Ashram record soon?

“I don’t know … I’ll have to talk to her about it, see what her vibe is. I have loads of ideas for that as well, but really have to sit down and talk to her about that.”

Sounds like you’ve just got to catch yourself for five minutes. You’ve got so much going on.

“Yeah, but life’s too short to sit around. There’s too much to do!”

Preston’s Finest: The Common Cold, waiting for their tour bus to arrive

The Common Cold UK tour: Thursday, May 10 – Darwen Sunbird Records, Friday, May 11 – Lancaster The Yorkshire House, Saturday, May 12 – Salford The White Hotel, Sunday, May 13 – Newcastle The Cluny 2, Monday, May 14 – Brighton The Hope and Ruin, Tuesday, May 15 – Hastings The Palace, Wednesday, May 16 – London Aces & Eights Saloon Bar, Thursday, May 17 – Leicester The Sound House, Friday, May 18 – Glasgow 02 ABC 2, Saturday, May 19 – Preston The Ferret (tickets are on sale for the latter from Saturday, March 24 via the venue or Action Records, from whom you can also order the album via this link).

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Music | Tagged Action Records, Ajay Saggar, Amsterdam, Cornershop, Dandelion Adventure, Deutsche Ashram, Jean-Jacques Burnel, John Peel, King Champion Sounds, Lancaster, Marcus Parnell, Mark E Smith, Preston, The Clash, The Common Cold, The Continental, The Fall, The Stranglers | 5 Comments

Continuing Songs of The South – in conversation with Gaz Birtles

Posted on March 15, 2018 by writewyattuk

Southern Comfort: The 2018 nine-piece line-up of The South

When founder member Dave Hemingway and long-serving keyboard player Damon Butcher called time late last year on live involvement with The South – the band that rose from the ashes of The Beautiful South – discussions followed about what to do next. But it was soon – rather aptly – agreed that the outfit would ‘carry on regardless’.

It’s a contentious issue. Like Trigger’s broom in Only Fools and Horses, when does something that’s more or less had all its parts replaced cease to become what it was initially? Yet Alison Wheeler (as featured on these pages in October 2016, with a link here) has been on board since 2003, and her co-vocalist Gary Birtles – best known as Gaz – started touring with the band in 1989.

When I saw The Beautiful South touring on the back of debut single Song For Whoever at Aldershot Buzz Club in June ‘89 (as recalled in my interview with Dave Hemingway in April 2014, with a link here), they were a five-piece (with not even Briana Corrigan involved, if memory serves me right). By all accounts though, it was the overall reception and sound on that eight-date mini-tour inspired band-leader Paul Heaton to change things around, recruiting five extra members, among them the afore-mentioned Damon and a three-man brass section that included trumpet player Tony Robinson, another co-founder of The South, but also a reecent departure, and sax player Gaz.

“When The Beautiful South started, they had extra brass, keyboards and percussion on the first album but just toured as a six-piece (or a five-piece at first, I reckon). And apparently it went down atrociously. I’ve heard bootlegs, and I’ve heard the band talk about people shouting for Housemartins songs or standing there in silence, out-staring the band, who were getting booed off and were wrecking their gear at the end of the night.”

For me, the gear-trashing did them no favours. The Who had already done that, and The Damned just about got it away with it on The Old Grey Whistle Test. But … yawn … that time around it just came over as ostentatious.

“Well, talking to the rest of the band, once I’d got to know them better, about that tour, the reason they did that was rebelling against the ‘nice’ indie image of The Housemartins. It was almost trying to do the opposite of what was expected. Right from the beginning, if anyone shouted for a Housemartins song, they’d just down tools and walk off.”

Gaz was back at home in Leicester when I called, after a Sunday show in King’s Lynn, gearing up to play Burnley Mechanics this Saturday (March 17th).

“I’m just glad to be back out there again. And after Burnley it’s three or four shows a weekend. I’d be out every week, given a choice. Sometimes it’s better to give it the full three or four weeks, get into the swing of it. But the reality is that promoters prefer you play weekends, and we’ve all got other things going on.

In Step: Gaz Birtles giving it what for, with former bandmate Tony Robinson to the left (Photo: The South)

“Most of the band are professional musicians – doing lots, from teaching to playing in other bands – but a couple have full-time jobs, having to get holidays booked well in advance.”

One of Gaz’s other roles involves Leicester venue The Donkey, booking bands and taking on sound duties, something he also loves. But he also notes a ‘general lack of enthusiasm for original bands,’ in recent years, adding, ‘It seems to be about tribute and cover bands at most venues’.

Playing devil’s advocate, I ask what right his band – with just two survivors from The Beautiful South – have to be out there playing hits mainly penned by Paul Heaton and David Rotheray.

“There is a genuine feeling that people don’t know what we are. I can understand some opinions that we might be a tribute band. We’re almost a tribute band to ourselves now. What we were to The Beautiful South is always like an off-shoot, not an extension. But mainly it’s about Beautiful South songs.

“I’ve been there since day one, pretty much, and think that lends authenticity. The reality is that people we meet after shows tell us how much they’ve enjoyed it. A lot haven’t seen The South or The Beautiful South before. We provide a night’s entertainment of great songs. And those who saw The Beautiful South come back and still love it.

“The songs are the bottom line, not the personnel. And we stick pretty much to the sound and arrangements The Beautiful South did live.”

The fact that you’re going out as a nine-piece suggests your belief. It can’t just be about making money if you end up having to split it nine times every night.

“Absolutely. If that was the case we could whittle down to a four-piece and add backing tracks, but I don’t think we’ve ever talked about that. There’s no reason to. We’re all in it for the same reason. We’re a band rather than a bunch of session players. We look at ourselves as a proper unit.”

Gaz’s link with The Beautiful South indirectly came through his spell – having been on the dole at that point – guesting as part of a brass section with Leicester band Crazyhead, who he described as ‘a Grebo sort of band’, including a European tour supporting Iggy Pop.

“It was about three weeks later when we got a phone call from The Beautiful South’s manager, saying we’d been recommended as a brass section. We were asked to do a one-off gig in Paris, and that went down well, so we were asked to do a tour. And that was it – we were there from 1989 onwards.”

His involvement in bands goes back to the punk era though.

“That’s how I started really. If it wasn’t for punk rock, I definitely wouldn’t be here. I was working in a warehouse when a couple of mates started a band, asking me to sing, having heard me sing at work. That was Wendy Tunes, one of the first bands of that ilk in Leicester to get signed.

“We started recording an album at The Who’s Ramport Studio, but it never got finished, although we did all the backing tracks. That was short-lived, but I later went on to an electro-pop band and we got signed to Warner Bros.”

That was The Swinging Laurels, who recorded a 1982 BBC Radio 1 session for DJ John Peel and enjoyed some pop-star moments of their own. You can find a few of the recordings they made on Gaz’s Bandcamp page. And how does it stand up now?

“It’s all very ‘80s because of the drum machines and synths, but it’s quite varied … yeah. We carried on for around six years and in that time supported Culture Club in their very early days, doing two tours with them, and on the back of that got to know producer Steve Levine, who produced for us too.”

There was also a link to the Fun Boy Three, formed by ex-Specials trio Terry Hall, Neville Staple and Lynval Golding.

“We had a Tuesday residency in midwinter at the Hope and Anchor, North London, with the NME coming down to the first one and giving us a great review. The venue was getting busier every week. At the last one you couldn’t walk in the place for all the A&R men. We got signed that night to Warner Bros.

“And during that period, the Fun Boy Three’s manager also popped in, looking for a brass section. And as we were flavour of the month, we ended up on The Telephone Always Rings and did Top of the Pops with them. You can see me dancing with a stupid white hat on!”

Swing Commanders: Gaz Birtles with The Swinging Laurels

It turns out though that Gaz – whose two sons have followed him into the music industry, his youngest having recently signed to Island Records with a band called Easy Life – initially got involved in music long before his punk days.

“Me and my best mate worked on the gas board and were both into Roxy Music, and Andy Mackay was a big influence. My mate went out and bought a saxophone for about £20 one day, so I went out a week after and did the same, and we both tried to learn together.”

In recent years Gaz finally had a chance to meet his initial sax inspiration, while guesting for Fun Lovin’ Criminals – having featured on their 2005 album, Livin’ for the City – in Bonn, Germany while they were supporting his old heroes.

“A mate from Leicester was playing drums for them. He was a massive Fun Lovin’ Criminals fan and used to hang around the stage door, ending up joining them and later recommending me.

“Then, a few years later, they went to Bonn to support Roxy Music and my mate invited me over to play sax and get to see them. And at the soundcheck I grabbed Andy and told him what an influence he was on me, getting him to sign my saxophone with a Sharpie.”

Just in case you think Leicester’s all about Kasabian, Engelbert Humperdinck, Family and Showaddywaddy, Gaz told me about the city’s link with Laurel Aitken too, the Jamaican ska pioneer settling there in 1970 with his wife after a spell in London, working as an entertainer in nightclubs and restaurants under his real name, Lorenzo, before a later resurgence on the back of the 2 Tone explosion, including a minor UK hit in 1980 with Rudi Got Married.

Laurel died in his late 70s in 2005, but got to play with several leading lights in the city’s music scene, not least keyboard player Andy Price, Damon Butcher’s replacement in The South, who’s also played alongside blues guitar maestro, Ainsley Lister, Happy Mondays’ Bez, and The Drifters.

And now Gaz has taken on co-vocal duties, sax is being provided by Su Robinson, who previously featured with fellow ska legend Prince Buster, and former Specials bass player Horace Panter’s band the Uptown Ska Collective, while Tony Robinson’s role has been taken on by trumpet player Gareth John, who’s played alongside members of the Happy Mondays, Fun Lovin’ Criminals and The Specials.

Gaz, Alison, and the new trio are augmented on stage by Phil Barton (guitar, and who had a hand in writing seven of the songs on the last LP), Steve Nutter (bass), Dave Anderson (drums), and Karl Brown (percussion). So what, I asked, made Dave Hemingway quit?

“He’d been saying for a couple of years he was physically tired of doing it, and was always a reluctant pop star. He was never at ease, which is stupid really, because he was so brilliant. On a good day he was far better than Paul in lots of respects, very witty on stage, with a voice like an angel, and a lovely bloke, but he was just getting so tired of it.

Vocal Presence: Alison Wheeler, out front with Gaz Birtles in the new line-up of The South (Photo: The South)

“But as people have left the band, I’ve pretty much got replacements in each time – all the A-team players from Leicester, who have played with each other over the years, including the keyboard player who has replaced Damon, who was so crucial to The Beautiful South’s sound. He moved to Dublin at the same time as Dave left, so his replacement, Andy, has a job and a half to do. A bigger job than me really, but he’s doing a great job. So yeah, it’s really like the A-team.”

Which one’s Mr T then?

“Erm … Karl, the percussionist!”

As well as his off-road work at The Donkey, Gaz also helps out at the De Montford Hall and two other Leicester venues, including involvement with the two-day Simon Says music festival. And then there are his other band duties, helping out on the driving front, not least because he classes himself ‘a rubbish passenger,’ co-managing the band, and even designing the last album.

So did he ever sing with the old band?

“Once on stage with The Beautiful South, on my 40^th birthday, headlining the Fleadh in Finsbury Park on a song where we needed a third harmony. That was 1995. I’m 62 now, but still feel 40!”

Are you just a touring band now, or is there a new LP to follow 2012’s well-received Sweet Refrains?

“The last one was fantastic and still stands up. We always play tracks from that, see people mouthing the words, and I’m really pleased and proud of that. But this year is about seeing if people will accept me first, and then we’ll see what we can do next year or later this year. And we’ve got new people in like Andy who write songs. We want to, but at the minute we’re just seeing if people will still book us. And the reactions so far have been fantastic.”

Carry On: The South, with a new line-up for Spring 2018, heading your way.

The South’s Spring UK tour started in Yeovil, Milton Keynes and Kings Lynn, and is now heading towards Burnley Mechanics (Sat, March 17, 01282 664400), Fleet The Harlington (Fri March 23, 01252 811009), Porthcawl Grand Theatre (Sat March 24, 01656 815995), Workington Carnegie Theatre (Thu March 29, 01900 602122), Glasgow 02 ABC 2 (Fri March 30, 0141 332 2232), Inverness Ironworks (Sat March 31, 0871 789 4173), Aberdeen His Majesty’s Theatre (Lemon Tree) (Sun April 1, 01224 641122), Manchester Club Academy (Fri April 6, 0161 832 1111), Wrexham William Aston Hall (Sat April 7, 0844 888 9991), Preston Charter Theatre (Sun April 8, 01772 804444), Buxton Opera House (Thu April 12, 01298 72190), Pocklington Arts Centre (Fri April 13, 01759 301547), Norwich Waterfront (Sat April 14, 01603 508050), Wakefield Warehouse 23 (Sun April 15, 01924 200162), Cardiff The Globe (Wed April 18, 0871 220 0260), Barnstaple Queen’s Theatre (Thu April 19, 01271 316063), and Weston-Super-Mare Playhouse (Fri April 20, 01934 645544).

For more information on The South, head to the band’s official website and keep in touch via Facebook and Twitter.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Music | Tagged Alison Wheeler, Andy Mackay, Crazyhead, Damon Butcher, Dave Hemingway, David Rotheray, Fun Boy Three, Gaz Birtles, Laurel Aitken, Leicester, Paul Heaton, Roxy Music, Su Robinson, The Beautiful South, The Housemartins, The South, The Specials, The Swinging Laurels | 2 Comments

Suggs – What a King Cnut, Preston Charter Theatre (Nights at the Theatre, pt.2)

Posted on March 9, 2018 by writewyattuk

Tidal Flow: Suggs on his throne in his guise as King Cnut at Preston’s Charter Theatre (Photo: Lynda McIntyre)

Fast forward four nights and I’m closer to home at the Charter Theatre (‘We were so close it was scary, we were that close I couldn’t tell you’). Regarding the venue, in this case we’re barely talking a 45-year history, yet while the adjoining Guild Hall is fairly soulless, there’s a nice feel about the Charter, and it seems the whole building – saved from the chop by Simon Rigby – is back on its uppers, as suggested by some of the events I’ve covered on these pages in recent years from those two venues and its LiVe area (I’ll draw a VeiL over that branding).

As for that night’s two-part act, here was someone integral to the soundtrack of my life since the first Madness album, One Step Beyond, hit the racks in late 1979, eight days before my 12^th birthday, the members of the band acting like they were probably the same age around then. I guess I matured with them, the Nutty Boys proving to be far more than a great singles band who staged sharp videos by the time they were making albums like Keep Moving and Mad Not Mad. Unfortunately, as the LPs got more serious and more appreciated by the likes of me, the public paid less interest. But while they briefly went away, they returned on the same fine form with the mighty Wonderful and The Liberty of Norton Folgate, and continue to belt out great records to this day, between occasional reunion shows.

Yet while the records suggest maturity, an hour and a half or so in Suggs’ company makes you realise the front-man’s as much a ball of frantic energy now as he was back in the early days – from the moment he’s trying to turn back the tide as his alter-ego King Cnut at the start of this entertaining show. Unfortunately I missed his initial My Life Story shows, but part of that format is here, an autobiographical stroll down the life of Graham McPherson which keeps you engaged from the off. Furthermore, the fantastic Julien Temple has recently made a film of the original show, which I’m very much keen to catch soon.

Ably assisted by his mate Deano on piano and occasional dialogue, there was a feeling that some of this was fairly unrehearsed, but that made it all the more interesting, Suggs sauntering through tales of early petty thievery, unorthodox apprenticeships and how Madness saved his bacon, right through to the 2012 Olympics closing ceremony and the Queen’s diamond jubilee. And en route we got his appreciation of Brian May, awaydays with Chelsea FC (and how he was looking forward to playing his FA Cup final song in Leeds on this tour), his embarrassment (‘A living endorsement’) at a This is Your Life starring role, family secrets, and much more. Meanwhile, the occasional duets with Deano bring to life and set the scene of great songs from the back-catalogue like My Girl, One Better Day, House of Fun, That Close, No More Alcohol, Amy Winehouse tribute Blackbird, and Our House.

How does this differ from his last show? Apparently, ‘if the first show was about how on earth he got there, this is about the surprises that awaited him when he did, for a bloke ‘constantly expecting that inevitable tap on the shoulder to hear ‘what are you doing here, Sunshine?’ How has he managed to get away with it for so long?’ Fame is a tightrope and Suggs has fallen off many times.’

Some Product: I kind of like the fact that Suggs signed my copy of That Close upside down (Photo: Malcolm Wyatt)

That becomes apparent as Suggs takes you through his past, starting in Glastonbury and ending on the roof of Buckingham Palace, in a show evocative enough to have you think you’re sharing a couple of pints with him or pounding the streets of Camden and Soho, popping in at the Colony Club and sneaking into the Groucho. There’s nothing false about the chumminess either, and he’s big enough to send himself up, riding the punches as characters around him pronounce him ‘a bit of a nob’ or ‘a King Cnut’.

Besides, there’s a warmth here that suggests for his occasional wrong turns in life, here’s a top bloke and a lot sharper and more intelligent than he’d like to admit. But you only have to read his lyrics, wallow in his autobiography, That Close, or its predecessor, Suggs and the City – his love letter to London – to get that. As the performance continues, you get an affinity for the real Suggs and how Madness more or less became his family, a little of the sadness in his life, his deep appreciation of his Mum and enduring love for wife Anne (aka Bette Bright) and his daughters too, all having saved him from the abyss many times these last however-many years.

As it was, my mate Paul, along for the occasion, has more affinity for the post-gig stage-door queuing malarkey than me, so we chatted for a while until most of the hangers-on drifted away. We were pretty sure he wasn’t going to show, but just happened to pass the side-exit as our star attraction made a dash for his transport, a small clique giving chase, us in their wake, getting to a dark, dingy and puddle-strewn car park just in time to have a quick word. ”Where’s next?” I asked awkwardly as a knackered and ready-to-be-gone Suggs signed my copy of That Close. “I haven’t got a fucking clue,” he cheerfully replied.

He stuck around a while though, dutifully smiling for a few selfies before speeding off (to Northampton, it turned out). I came away that night reappraising a bloke I always admired, seeing him in an alternative but similarly-positive light. And as with David Baddiel a few nights before, here’s a fella I felt closer to by the end of the evening. In fact, you could say, ‘We were that close’.

Holding Back: Suggs McPherson exerts his regal power at Preston’s Charter Theatre (Photo: Lynda McIntyre)

For further dates and ticket details for Suggs’ What a King Cnut tour, head here.

To cast your eyes over an appreciation of Madness on this site from five years earlier – in January 2013, just after the release of Oui Oui Si Si Ja Ja Da Da – head here.

With thanks to Lynda McIntyre, No Third Entertainments

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Comedy & Theatre, Football, Music | Tagged Brian May, Camden, Chelsea, David Baddiel, London, Madness, Preston, Preston Charter Theatre, Soho, Suggs, Suggs and the City, That Close, What a King Cnut | 3 Comments

David Baddiel – My Family: Not the Sitcom, Lancaster Grand (Nights at the Theatre, pt.1)

Posted on March 9, 2018 by writewyattuk

Contemplating chronicling two nights out this past week in one review, I wondered if I was dovetailing for the sake of it. Both involved theatres in Lancashire starring London solo acts, each reflecting on the links between their public and private lives, but with little else in common really. Or perhaps there was.

Grand Setting: Upstairs at the Lancaster Grand (Photo copyright: Ian Grundy, 2014)

I’ll start last Friday night, the first spring dumping of snow seemingly already behind us and a late decision taken by myself and the better half to get up to Lancaster after all. I was keen to see David Baddiel’s show and take in my first Grand visit since a 1997 kids’ show during a work placement at the Garstang Courier weekly newspaper.

Beginning with the venue itself, it’s been a key component of this North Lancs city since 1782 (a mere 208 years before the first TV episode of The Mary Whitehouse Experience). Backing on to Lancaster Music Co-Op, where recent writewyattuk interviewees The Lovely Eggs hang out, the building was remodelled in 1897 by renowned architect Frank Matcham, three years after he got to work on Blackpool’s Tower Ballroom and 13 years before he turned his attention to the London Palladium.

By then, fire had gutted its interior, yet an Edwardian refit proved a winner, the building in that guise for 110 years and counting, with such ornate detail to marvel at, not least where we were in the circle. In fact, it’s in its best nick for some years, thanks to on-going restoration work and a team of dedicated volunteers, the kind of community heroes that ensure so many of these great buildings still host events today.

On to David, and we’d only spoken the previous week (with that interview linked here). I guess I was more of a Fantasy Football League fan than of his previous work, but always liked the fella, and he came over well on the phone. Furthermore, the reviews of his new show were very promising. It was well worth a trip up the M6 on a cold and frosty late winter’s night. This wasn’t someone just out to revitalise his career 25 years after those humungous comedy gigs at Wembley with Rob Newman. There’s often a whiff of payola involved in big names of yore returning to the stage, but he seemed to be doing it for the right reasons.

Actually, David returned to stand-up five years earlier, but this was more akin to the loving son we saw in recent Channel 4 documentary, The Trouble with Dad, tackling his father’s battle with dementia, melding that with a public tribute to his Mum, who passed away in late 2014. And both themes were close to my heart, having experienced my Dad’s demise through dementia (he died in late 2012) and having seen my Mum go down that same road since, now in a care home in Surrey.

With David’s Dad, Colin Baddiel, we’re talking Pick’s disease, or frontotemporal dementia. But before you get the medical dictionary out, I should point out that this was no medical seminar or charity fundraiser. And with tonight’s star act Frank Skinner’s old sidekick, there were plenty of moments where you were likely to wince and question what might be deemed appropriate for comedy treatment.

It’s that old conundrum of whether you should keep family matters private, but it works here, and anecdotal evidence suggests David’s folks would approve too. Furthermore, a fair proportion of us out there identified with his comic recollections of his parents, many moments of which I’d hazard a guess he wouldn’t have been laughing at when they happened, wracked by embarrassment.

This wasn’t throwaway humour either, but more about honouring two special people and their extraordinary lives – David mum Sarah was a refugee from Nazi Germany – in what proved a worthy tribute via warm recollections that proved they were no saints but were certainly good people, for all their foibles. As the man himself told me, “You have a choice of going to silence or a very bland memory of them being a lovely person, or the true story, which will be more complicated. I consider it to be a bigger act of love to tell the true story.”

From everything David tells you about his Mum – who you may recall from past TV appearances with her son – you know she’d have appreciated being the centre of attention for much of the night, even when – or perhaps even particularly – the stories involved such sordid details. I won’t go into all that here – go see the show for yourself – but I certainly heard my old man’s own inappropriate humour in some of the stories about Colin. Couple that with Sarah’s bold as brass view on life and I guess it’s no surprise David ended up in this line of work.

The premise of the show is simple enough – engaging, witty bloke gives multi-media slide presentation, sharing memories of his Mum, Dad, grandparents, wife (comedian Morwenna Banks), children and cats. But there’s much more to it, and certainly a lot of warmth and comic craft. What’s more, we came away feeling a little closer to not only David, but Colin and Sarah Baddiel too, on what – for extra poignancy – would have marked the latter’s birthday.

Family Man: David Baddiel, out on tour through to early July

For further dates and ticket details for David Baddiel’s My Family: Not the Sitcom tour, head here.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Comedy & Theatre, Music | Tagged Colin Baddiel, David Baddiel, Fantasy Football League, Frank Skinner, Lancaster, Lancaster Grand, Mary Whitehouse Experience, Sarah Baddiel | Leave a comment

A class act – the Tom Williams interview

Posted on March 8, 2018 by writewyattuk

Shhh! Listen: Tom Williams is setting out on a mini-tour, including a date at Lancaster Library

Blokes aren‘t supposed to be capable of multi-tasking, but Tom Williams has pulled off something of a highwire balancing act while juggling spectacularly this past couple of years. There are definitely no regrets at turning his back on the music business though. In fact, he’s positively thriving in his new dual-identity.

I best get some of you up to speed first. A few years ago it was Tom Williams and The Boat, a folk-rock outfit signed to Moshi Moshi, beloved of BBC 6 Music, a support act to Adele, and as Tom put it, ‘nearly making it in the business, but not quite’.

A big decision followed, Tom chucking it all in and turning to teaching, with no plans to make any more records. But then, last year, he made the album of his career, All Change, his fifth long player, put together in practice rooms across Kent in breaks from teaching guitar and songwriting to primary and secondary school children, the lyrics coming to him on long daily drives from his home on the South coast, backed by a band of music tech students.

Many plaudits followed, the LP made on a shoestring yet sounding anything but, described as a reflection of his ‘life-long love affair with 1970s American rock, showcasing a new refinement to his songwriting, and a more commercial edge’. Or as the man himself added, it was, ‘A celebration of the big chord-change and the emotional sucker-punch line’.

The previous band was formed with friends from his hometown, Tunbridge Wells, with 2010 debut album Too Slow leading to support from the likes of Lauren Laverne, Steve Lamacq, Cerys Matthews and Huw Stephens. Yet those early gigs were seldom easy – not even for Adele, with whom he shared the stage supporting Late Of The Pier. He said, “Everyone faced the other way and talked while she sang. It’s brutal when you start. I tell the kids now, don’t let anyone tell you if you’re good you get noticed, because it’s bullshit!”

Contemplating his original change of heart, he gives a matter of fact, “The stars just never aligned for us. I was about to turn 30, I was getting married, and I was teaching and I really love it. I’ve got a mortgage. I’m not that fussed. And I was content.

“I spend most of my time with these kids. I absolutely love teaching seven year-olds their first chords, and helping teenagers get into writing their first songs. Songwriting can make them feel better. It’s like shouting into a balloon.”

What’s more, being forced to bond with his pupils by playing the latest Ed Sheeran or Taylor Swift singles led him to look at songwriting in a new light, his methods becoming quicker and more refined. And with no expectations, no plans and no management looking over his shoulder, he just happened to enter the most creative period of his career.

It was in January 2016 that his new songs came to life during a week-long artist-in-residence role in the music department of Leeds Beckett University, getting involved on the proviso that they provided him with a band, which turned out to be the six 19-year-old music technology students who appeared on the LP.

He added, “They were the best band I’ve ever had. I was there pretending to be a success, and they were there pretending to be a band, and we met in the middle and bluffed each other, and it worked.”

The band recorded two songs a day – 20 takes before lunch and 20 after – and Tom persuaded them to stay on during the Easter holidays for a second three-day session. Every one of the seven tracks they recorded made it on to the album.

And what an album, ‘a feast of rock and folk songs drenched in strings, Hammond organ and rich ‘70s harmonies,’ mixed in June by Ian Grimble (The Fall, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Mumford & Sons), with additional guitar and backing vocals.

Tom reckons, “The whole album has a magical feeling – it feels like I did it in my sleep. After 10 years trying to make records and chase the industry I was happy and wasn’t chasing it – and for some reason I made a record I loved. Because I’m not worried in it, I’m not self-conscious, and I’m not embarrassed.”

It seems that he’s never been one to take the obvious road. A former student of abstract art, as a teenager he ran away from home to avoid a place studying at Oxford’s prestigious Ruskin School, deciding instead to run away and be a musician, inspired after hearing Mumford & Sons, chasing the romantic notion of being ‘in a warehouse with no heating, throwing paint around’. He eventually took up his place though, and retains a love for abstract art, something arguably reflected in his attitude to music and his zig-zagging path to success.

And teaching – in Kent and East Sussex – is now at the heart of what he does. There’s even a song on All Change co-written with a 15-year-old student. Meanwhile, three of the Leeds students on the album still get out there with him when they can, when their mutual timetables allow it, including a string of six low-key shows starting next Thursday (March 15th) in Stroud, Gloucestershire.

Tom was catching up on lessons when I got in touch earlier this week, after a week of snow, “Back in schools and songwriting workshops,” and, “Also in the middle of finishing a new album – it’s all go, go, go!”

I asked him about his dual-identity, suggesting that’s the way forward for many of us these days. The fact that we can do what we really love doing helps, of course.

“Absolutely. I love everything I do. I love teaching and tutoring and also love writing, recording and touring with the band. I count myself very lucky and don’t feel like either takes second-fiddle to the other. They’re all equally important parts of my life for sure.”

Tom and his partner Sarah, an illustrator, live in St Leonards-on-Sea, ‘one mile down the seafront from Hastings’, his base for the last eight years. Is fitting the band around work a difficult task then?

“It’s the way I like it. I like being busy. I have lots of friends in bands who are signed to major labels and I see them come off big tours and just shuffling around at home, bored out of their mind. I couldn’t do that. I like that I tour, record and play but also teach and work. Works for me anyway!”

Are your Leeds student friends in the band for this next handful of dates?

“Yes, the band on the album was big, seven or eight, but I’ve taken the core of that band – bass, drums and keys – out on the road with me for this past year. I also have Anthony Vicary, who was in Tom Williams & The Boat. I’ve played and sung with Ant for about 11 years now, so he’s essential.”

You had a lot of interest in the past from the likes of BBC 6 Music, and that still seems to be the case.

“That’s always been vital to us. Even on this last album we were put in 6 Music’s top 10 albums of 2017, which was mind-blowing.”

It was a big decision to make, going into full-time teaching. Was there a catalyst?

“It’s just the way life was going at the time. I really enjoy teaching and like keeping myself busy when I’m not touring or recording. I had no plans to make a new album but then the opportunity to record at Leeds Beckett came about and a new album emerged. A little miracle!”

I get the impression All Change was a ‘no pressure’, ‘doing it for the right reasons’ type project. It certainly comes over that way. Did you find yourself in a creative frame of mind, with that pressure off?

“Absolutely. No label, no management at the time, no band and no songs! Blank canvas, an amazing experience.”

Studio Tan: Tom and his band behind the scenes (Still: Tiny Light Productions)

I was very impressed with the result. Were you pleased with the reception?

“We were all thrilled. The album ended up coming out on Caroline International/ Universal, so to sign a major label deal of sorts in your second decade as a musician is pretty weird. We had no expectations at all. It was all a total thrill and a surprise.”

Has the day-job opened your eyes to refining your ideas of what makes a good tune? Because there are some mighty melodic touches on the last album.

“Absolutely. I think teaching pop music to kids of all ages has really helped open my eyes to different ways of singing and writing. It’s been an education for me, not sure my pupils would say the same – ha! It’s certainly exposed me to music I wouldn’t have listened to otherwise.”

The label ‘folk rock’ was brought up in past descriptions, but All Change goes far beyond that. There are elements of the best of Mumford and Sons, Noah and the Whale, and so on, giving an indication of where this all started, but much more. How would you describe your sound?

“I think it’s sounding quite classic rock at the moment, or dare I say it, dad-rock! It’s difficult to describe your own sound. I may be able to describe what I think I sound like but what actually comes out may be a completely different thing.”

I’ve heard you allude to Bruce Springsteen and mention Tom Petty, Nick Cave, Tom Waits … all suggesting a broad church. Who would you say were your biggest influences over the years?

“Bob Dylan never fails to surprise me and blow the cobwebs off. There are still albums I’ve never heard that are amazing. I got into a big Infidels phase in the last six months. Elliott Smith, Ryan Adams and Nirvana were all massive as a teenager and What’s The Story? (Morning Glory) was my first love as a nine-year-old, bought on cassette from Sainsbury’s. I remember seeing War On Drugs at Concorde 2 on the Slave Ambient tour and their solos were so long people were going into trance-like states, it was like a rave. That was amazing. To see guitar music so classic but so contemporary and energised. It was inspiring to see people doing new things with old tools. Not always chasing the new shiny sound.”

All Change was among the cream of the albums of 2017 for this scribe. The single Get High quite rightly got a lot of airplay, Sometimes would sit well on a Lloyd Cole album, and I felt proud on your behalf hearing the album’s opener, Everyone Needs a Home, used as the play-out music on an episode of Cold Feet last year. You’re in good company there over the years.

“That was certainly surreal to say the least. I’ve never had so many texts!”

There’s just a handful of gigs coming up this time. Is it a case of fitting in shows where and when you can?

“We’re just keeping our eye in with six shows now, festivals through the summer, then hopefully a new album before the end of the year. But who knows, eh. ‘Every day is a winding road,’ as a wise woman once said!”

No need to Crow about it, Tom. Actually, my main excuse for speaking is the Lancaster Library show. Erm … a Sunday matinee performance?

“Yes, that should be interesting, getting the band up and awake so early. Let’s see what happens – ha!”

Let’s hope it’s not a case of Sleep Tight Saturday Night, eh. Actually, at the same venue I’ve seen cracking sets in the past from The Thrills, The Go-Betweens’ Robert Forster, then James Walsh and Ian Broudie (in a double-header). And I see you’re also playing Oldham Library. It’s a splendid idea and a great concept. Besides, anything that keeps libraries open in these days of major Government austerity cuts and a lack of cultural funding has got to be a good thing.

“Absolutely, libraries are sacred spaces and I’ve wanted to play these gigs for years. First time though, can’t wait.”

Talking of alternative venues, I enjoyed your set at St Philip’s Church, Salford, for Sounds from the Other City last May (with a review here). Other acts seemed to struggle with their sound, but it sounded pretty good where I was for you.

“That’s good to hear, thank you. We were first on, so got to sort our sound before we went on – always an advantage. Churches are a nightmare sonically. They were obviously built to amplify acoustic music, so when you pump thousands of watts of amplified sound into them it’s fairly cacophonous. Everyone sounds like the Jesus & Mary Chain!”

Finally, no pressure but you best get on with that new album. Is it a case of fitting recording around school holidays?

“It’s all recorded already. It needs mixing and mastering and it’ll be with you soon. Watch this space!”

All Change: Tom Williams will be out and about in 2018 … between teaching commitments

Tom Williams and his band visit Stroud’s Marshall Rooms (Thursday, March 15th), Oldham Library & Lifelong Learning Centre (Friday, March 16th), Sheffield Regather (Saturday, March 17th), Lancaster Library (Sunday, March 18th, 2.30pm), Reading’s South Street Arts Centre (Thursday, March 22nd), and Bexhill’s Albatross Club (Friday, March 23rd, already sold out). For ticket details and all the latest from Tom, head to his official website here. You can also keep in touch via Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Music | Tagged Adele, All Change, BBC Radio 6 Music, Bob Dylan, Cold Feet, Kent, Lancaster Library, Leeds Beckett University, Mumford and Sons, Sounds from the Other City, Sussex, The Boat, Tom Williams, Tunbridge Wells | 1 Comment

Power to the M People – the Heather Small interview

Posted on March 3, 2018 by writewyattuk

“Stop barking! It’s like, ‘Take notice of me!’ I’ve had to be away from her for the morning. I’ve only had her two years, and I wouldn’t be without her. She’s absolute sunshine.”

That’s Heather Small, talking about her beloved toy poodle, who goes by the name of Nina, after Ms Simone, which gives me my first point of reference, a chance to mention another great vocal talent and interpreter of songs, telling my interviewee I’d only been listening to Nina’s stonking version of Barry and Robin Gibb’s To Love Somebody that morning.

“Ah, she’s a mistress at interpreting other people’s songs, such as her version of Suzanne.”

Indeed, from that same 1969 album, not only tackling the Bee Gees and Leonard Cohen but also Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger numbers. Mind you, I say, I always get the impression that she wouldn’t play a song live if you expected her to though.

“Yeah – don’t make a request! Ha! ‘I’m not here to please you – I don’t care if you’ve paid!’”

Heather, not so long back from a trip to Barbados and now dealing with snow in London, was in fine voice, as you might expect, the day I called her. And when she’s on a roll, it’s hard to equate her with the younger performer said to be remarkably shy at the start of her career.

Somehow, it’s now 27 years since the first M People album, Northern Soul, let alone her first ballad with fellow Deconstruction dance outfit Hot!House back in early 1987, Don’t Come to Stay.

“I know, and for me it’s the fact that I’ve got an hour and a half of hits these days. That’s amazing, and what’s even more amazing is that people are still willing to come and see me sing those hits.”

Let’s tally up those hits before we go much further. With M People alone we’re talking 20 top-40 hit singles in the 1990s, of which 10 made the top-10. Including How Can I Love You More?, One Night in Heaven, Moving On Up, Renaissance, and Search for the Hero. And there were also four top-five albums, a Mercury Music Prize win for second LP, Elegant Slumming, in ’93, and a Brit award for Best British Dance Act in ’94 and ‘95.

Going right back, with Heather born in late January 1965 and brought up on a West London council estate, I understand religion and faith became an important aspect of her life. Was it through her church links that where she found her voice?

“I never went to a church where I could sing gospel music or anything like that. I never sang in church. I sang from my own endeavours. I didn’t really do anything until I was 18.”

I got the impression you were initially shy, so assumed it was singing that brought you out of yourself.

“No, I never sang anywhere or did any performance. When I started to perform to an audience was when I did The Tube. I was terrified. I didn’t move! I just sang, concentrating on making it through the song.”

That was with Hot!House in early 1987, on the final series of the Jools Holland and Paula Yates-fronted Channel 4 show, and you can find it via Heather’s YouTube link, Heather battling shyness and severe nerves and going on to make two albums – in 1988 and 1990 – with bandmates Mark Pringle and Martin Colyer. But it was with her next Deconstruction outfit that she reached her promised land.

“I joined M People after Hot!House disbanded. They were going in one direction and I wasn’t really interested in that, but the guys in M People had the same management and said to their manager, ‘Let Heather know if she does leave that we have two songs we’ve written especially for her and we’d love for her to record them, see what she thinks.’”

That was in 1990, Manchester-based DJ and musician Mike Pickering and his London bandmate Paul Heard getting in contact (percussion player Shovell also soon in the mix), with those two songs Colour My Life and How Can I Love You More? And word has it that Mike and Paul were looking at just taking on guest vocalists, until they heard Heather.

“They let me do what I wanted to do with the song, and I brought a gospel element to Have Can I Love You More? They went with that and let me do the songs the way I felt them. I hadn’t had formal training and still always go for feel. I can’t read music and can’t play an instrument.”

She laughs at this, hearing herself say that, and I ask where she thinks that mighty soulful voice came from.

“I found out after that there were people in my family who would sing in church, in the Caribbean. They would sing for people – for religious gatherings, funerals, stuff like that. But my grandfather would never have condoned them singing outside of church. Making pop music wouldn’t have gone down well at all!“

Heather’s parents arrived in the UK from the Caribbean in the ’60s, and while it’s easy to place the soul influences in her voice, it turns out that she was also a fan of 2015 writewyattuk interviewee Elkie Brooks. Which, on closer reflection, also makes sense.

“Yeah, and on the last tour I did Pearl’s a Singer. What a great singer, great interpretation, very soulful, and you know straight away it’s Elkie Brooks when you hear her, at a time when it’s quite difficult to differentiate between singers. And I grew up in a time in the ‘70s when you’d have Bob Marley and ABBA on the same radio station. So for me it was about being on top of your game … whatever your game was.”

Growing up in 70’s Britain and not wanting to be stereotyped or treated differently, Heather knew she wanted to make something of herself. I mention how Martha Reeves told me in a 2015 interview that being one of 11 children led to her making herself heard, helping bring herself out. How about Heather? Was she aware early on that she had this great voice?

“I was very shy, and when it comes to my voice, all I can say is that singing made me feel great. It was more intrinsic to me, in that I didn’t feel right if I didn’t sing. I told myself I had to make it as a singer, because of the joy it gives me. Purposefully, I didn’t learn to type or anything like that, so I didn’t have anything else to fall back on. If you heard a young person saying that now, you’d say, ‘Oh no!’ But I had to make it!

“And it’s so much fun. No two days are the same. It’s still like that for me after being in music for over 25 years. There’s that element of surprise, and right now, I’m writing songs with a young writer/producer, and it’s exciting and still has that power to surprise me.”

In 2008, Heather was back in the public eye as a contestant on BBC One’s Strictly Come Dancing, that infectious personality and sense of humour leading to many more TV appearances, including several high-profile chat and quiz shows. But the live work never waned, either as a solo artist – having recorded two albums under her own name – or with M People. And then there was her 2010 tour with 2016 writewyattuk interviewee Lulu and US singer Anastacia on the ’Here Come the Girls’ tour (Heather replacing Chaka Khan from the initial tour). But did she realise there was another link there? For 18 years before Heather recorded her debut LP with Hot!House at Muscle Shoals in Sheffield, Alabama, Lulu recorded in the same legendary studio, for her New Routes album.

“Oh, my God, I didn’t know that! That’s where I did my first recordings. I tell you what, there’s a real aura in that studio. I’d been nowhere before, and here I was, this British girl, in Muscle Shoals, and yet I felt so at home. I started singing with a live band and thought, ‘This is it, this is my life, being in that environment with other musicians, and the way it made me feel. I’d be interpreting something, and they’d do the same. To this day I still get that same joy. And I’ve just realised I closed my eyes while explaining that!”

So many great songs were made there, from The Rolling Stones’ Brown Sugar and White Horses to The Staples Singers’ I’ll Take You There and Respect Yourself, via Arthur Conley’s Sweet Soul Music, Wilson Pickett’s Land of a 1,000 Dances and Mustang Sally, Etta James’ I’d Rather Go Blind …

“Listen, there’s an aura there. And people say about Aretha Franklin, and how she wasn’t happy there, going through a bad time with her then-husband and then she just let it all out in her vocals. And that’s the thing about experience. You’ve got to be brave enough to let those experiences come through. I think that’s what I’ve learned with live performances.”

Heather’s talking about Aretha’s mighty I Never Loved a Man (The Way I Love You) there, a great story neatly retold on the entertaining and informative Every Record Tells a Story website. And what an advert for Muscle Shoals, recorded in 1967, the year I was born.

But let’s fast forward 22 years, because I’m a little confused over this. Is that right that we heard Heather some time between Hot!House and M People, through a re-recorded vocal take on 1989’s Ride on Time mega-hit for Black Box? I realise it was originally half-inched from Loleatta Holloway, but …

“Do you know, I’ve never confirmed this, with all this folklore around that. Someone recently told me, ‘Well, it’s on Wikipedia!’ Ha ha!”

Well, I’m always very wary about what I repeat from the internet.

“I’ve never ever said that. People just take it for granted. But if you listen … I was a younger woman then, and if you hear the two versions you can hear which is the woman with the real experience and which one is the pretender! If you listen to it, you can tell.”

I try one more time for a definitive answer, but she’s not playing, and just laughs when I say we’ll have to leave that a little ambiguous. So with that we move on to Proud, the title track of her debut solo album in 2000, an inspirational worldwide hit soon heard in so many situations – including the launch of Queen Mary 2 and England’s victory at the Rugby World Cup in 2003, the VE Day 60th anniversary commemorations in Trafalgar Square and the Tsunami Relief Concert in Cardiff in 2005, and the London Olympics’ bid and a ceremony marking the handover from Beijing in 2008. In fact, I put to her, the song (co-written with former Jethro Tull keyboard player Peter-John Vettese) seems to have a life of its own.

“It has, and it’s taken me to so many different places. It’s unbelievable. It’s flown around the world, so people can hear me sing that one song live.”

And when Oprah Winfrey was looking for a song to sum up the work she’d been striving to achieve over a 20-plus year career, she got in touch with Heather, who squeezed in a trip across the Atlantic to perform on the show in the middle of her last M People UK tour in 2005, explaining, ‘If Oprah calls, you go!’

“Which is very flattering. But like I’ve said before, it doesn’t make it any less flattering if it’s somebody who is watching their son or daughter in a school play and they use ‘Proud’. I attended a school where the pupils were all talking about their experiences and they started singing Proud at the end. I thought, ‘Hold it together, Heather,’ and then this one boy started crying and I was gone! When you experience something like that … it’s been used for school anthems and assemblies. Oh my goodness! Especially going over to Chicago to sing it for Oprah, because it’s about celebrating those small, joyous moments and those private moments.”

That pride theme fits neatly with Heather’s charity work for anti-racist and anti-bullying causes, for a campaigner who is also an ambassador for children’s charity, Barnardo’s. And she comes over very much a spiritual person, I put to her.

“Yes, I go to church and always seek out some kind of spiritual life and connection, and other people. That’s why I like doing what I do for those charities. It keeps me in touch with my own humanity. They’re doing something for me – keeping me in a place where I will always feel sensitive. I don’t deserve any praise for it. I say if you have an abundance of something money or whatever … I can sing, so I go and sing, and there are people who have lots of money so they give lots of money, and there are people who have time and they give all of their time. And no one thing out-trumps the other.”

She laughs at my next question, mainly because I suggest I don’t want to pry into her private life but do so all the same, her shouting, ‘Go ahead! Go ahead!’ in the background. In short, she spent a fair bit of time in the North West of England through her past relationship with Wigan rugby league legend Shaun Edwards. Does she miss this part of the world?

“Well, the North West came to London, so that was alright!”

You were based around Standish, weren’t you?

“They were so lovely to me. My son is still a regular visitor there, because his grandparents are there. So he’s fluent in Wigan-ese!”

Is Heather’s son, now 21, following in Mum or Dad’s footsteps, career-wise?

“He doesn’t sing but he’s at Edinburgh Uni now and he’s a sportsman like his father. He’s in the uni rugby team. But I don’t like to talk about him too much, or I’ll get a little phone call!”

People Person: Heather Small, back out on the road in April and May 2018

Heather Small – The Voice of M People visits 14 UK venues in April and May, opening at Newcastle’s Tyne Theatre (April 13) and calling at Hull University Union (April 14), Wrexham William Aston Hall (April 15), Bristol Marble Factory (April 17), London ULU (April 20), Sheffield Foundry (April 21), Manchester Academy 2 (April 22), Preston Charter Theatre (April 24), Salisbury City Hall (April 25), Oxford 02 Academy (April 27), Isle of Man Gaiety Theatre (April 29), Wakefield Warehouse 23 (May 4), Glasgow 02 ABC (May 5), and Norwich Waterfront (May 16). Tickets also available from Ticketweb (0333 321 9990). For more details head to Heather’s website or keep in touch via Facebook and Twitter.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Music | Tagged Aretha Franklin, Deconstruction, Elkie Brooks, Heather Small, Hot!House, London, Lulu, M People, Manchester, Mike Pickering, Muscle Shoals, Nina Simone, Paul Heard, Proud, Shovell | 1 Comment

On Tour: Not the bike race – the David Baddiel interview

Posted on February 22, 2018 by writewyattuk

Family Man: David Baddiel, out on tour across the nation, right through to early July

After a sold-out run at the Menier Chocolate Factory and in London’s West End, comedian, novelist and TV presenter David Baddiel is taking his Olivier-nominated one-man show to theatres nationwide, with four dates already in the bag when we caught up.

My Family: Not the Sitcom is the follow up to 2013’s Fame: Not the Musical, David’s return to stand-up after several years. And as much as he enjoyed the previous tour, the new show is taking him into new areas, and he’s loving the reaction.

As his press release put it, ‘It’s a show about memory, ageing, infidelity, dysfunctional relatives, moral policing on social media, golf, and gay cats.’ Not your average stand-up show then. It’s also, ‘A massively disrespectful celebration of the lives of David Baddiel’s late sex-mad mother, Sarah, and dementia-ridden father, Colin,’ so we need to, ‘Come and be offended on David’s behalf.’

The 53-year-old Londoner is perhaps still best known for early ‘90s radio and TV comedy, The Mary Whitehouse Experience, alongside Rob Newman, Hugh Dennis and Steve Punt, and fellow BBC hit Fantasy Football League in the mid-’90s, with Frank Skinner. These days though, the father-of-two, married to fellow comedian Morwenna Banks, has seen his writing take precedence, both his adult and children’s novels. But right now, it’s his take on his parents grabbing the attention, following on from an autobiographical peek into his family through last year’s powerful Channel 4 documentary The Trouble With Dad, a very personal insight into dealing with a loved one’s dementia.

But don’t expect him to portray his folks – his mother died in 2014 – as saints. As he explains, “When family members die, or are lost to dementia, all we tend to say about them is that they were wonderful. But if that’s all you can say about them, you may as well say nothing. To truly remember our loved ones, you have to call up their weirdnesses, their madnesses, their flaws. Because the dead, despite what we may think, are not angels.”

The critical reaction to his latest show has been quite something, not least the reviews in the Evening Standard, The Guardian, The Telegraph and The Times. Then there’s all that social media praise, from the likes of JK Rowling, Russell Brand, Ricky Gervais, Hugh Laurie, Lily Allen, Graham Norton, Rob Brydon, Jack Dee, Sue Perkins, David Mitchell, David Walliams, Matt Lucas, Ross Noble, Katherine Ryan, Bill Bailey, George Ezra, David Morrissey, Chris Evans, Alan Carr … What’s more, as I suggest to him, it doesn’t seem like the average rent-a-quote West End back-patting.

“Well, that’s nice for you to say. It’s been really great, the reaction. I think because the show is very personal, and authentic, people respond to that. And every word is true. Despite being very personal to me, it also seems to speak to people about their own family experience. I think that’s what happens.”

His next date is on Friday, February 23rd, a sell-out at Chester’s Storyhouse, followed by a visit to Birmingham Alexandra on Wednesday, February 28th, then – my excuse for talking to David – a two-night run at Lancaster Grand on Thursday, March 1st and Friday, March 2nd. And when we spoke he was extremely pleased with the response to the first regional shows.

“Yes, I’ve done four already – Aberdeen, Bath, Truro and Cheltenham – and they’ve all gone really well, as is often the case. While I had a lovely time in the West End, out of London it’s really brilliant. There’s a real sense of joy at these gigs.”

It’s a truly personal show, as you say, and a different form of stand-up to that which perhaps we might have expected from you back in the ’90s. Is it good to be back out there playing live again? Because, let’s face it, you’re not exactly a regular gigging comedian these days.

“Well, I did a show in 2013, Fame: Not the Musical, the first time I came back to stand up after having not done it for a while, with a new type of stand-up, much more storytelling, including a screen, using clips, and very autobiographical. So it was a different type of stand-up, although not a million miles from what I did. It felt a bit more mature, for want of a better word.

“I hadn’t done it for a bit, but partly because I was having children and all sorts of things. It wasn’t because I didn’t want to perform. But I performed so much in the ‘90s, touring and doing all this for such a long time. It’s very all-consuming, stand-up comedy, so I think I needed time away from it. I wasn’t sure how it would feel to come back to it. But it felt really great.

“This show particularly has touched a chord with people, and that’s different to how it was. I used to enjoy getting laughs but didn’t get the sense I get with this – that people think it’s spoken to them and they want to tell me about their family and all that. It’s really lovely.”

Stand-up comedy can be a lonely profession, not least as you’re out there on your own most nights, even away from mates doing the same job in other towns.

“Well, you do bump into people quite a lot, and one of the things about having done this for a long time is that you do feel part of a little community. It’s a funny old thing, that.

“Actually, to say something rather bleak, when Sean Hughes died, I went to his funeral and part of going was seeing like 40 comedians from my generation, all feeling sad but also part of a real community. We were mourning one of our own, who came up in the same generation, and there’s something really nice about that. It’s not very competitive or anything. It’s very comradely.

“Funnily enough, Rob Newman is playing Salford Lowry the same night as me. And without going on about it, he’s in the smaller room! So it’s the first time Newman and Baddiel will be performing in the same theatre on the same night in … ”

Well at the end of this year it will be 25 years since those huge Wembley gigs you did together, won’t it?

“Yeah, and actually they offered us a gig … but it’s not going to be happening. Wembley did offer a big 25^th anniversary gig. I was sort of interested. I think Rob wasn’t. I wasn’t sure either, because I didn’t quite know what we were going to do. But we wouldn’t have to dress up as History Today people, because we already look like them.”

Baddiel Sprit: David Baddiel and his Dad, Colin, putting the world to rights.

At the same time, is this you trying to redress the balance. I mean, was there a danger of you just becoming known as that bloke married to Mummy Pig and Dr Hamster from Peppa Pig.

“Well, that’s alright. I don’t mind that. I can only be proud. Actually, of that younger generation, a lot are now into the kids’ books. The other day I was in a shop and this woman told me her daughter was a massive fan. She was around 10. Then she said, ‘Can I have your autograph, because I used to come and see you.’ So that’s nice.

At this point, David seems to have a go at me for suggesting – and I wasn’t, by the way – that his beloved Morwenna might just be the mother of his teenage children plus TV favourites Peppa and George, letting me know about her recent writing with Jo Brand for Channel 4 sitcom, Damned, set in the children’s services department office of a local council, starring its writers plus former writewyattuk interviewee Alan Davies, Kevin Eldon, Himesh Patel, Isy Suttie, Georgie Glen, and Aisling Bea. If you’ve not caught up on last autumn’s first series, you best hurry as they’re now running the second one, which began last week.

Anyway, I soon re-dress the balance, talking about Morwenna’s West Country roots and our mutual love of Cornwall.

“We’ve just come back from there, because my second or third night of the tour was in Truro. We decided after that gig to spend some time doing a whistle-stop tour of her family, who are mainly still there. We normally go there two or three times a year, and one thing I’ve noticed about Cornish people is that wherever they are, they have a yearning to return, in a way that I don’t have a particular yearning to return to Cricklewood. We spend a lot of time there. And it’s especially nice now, opposed to in the summer when it’s mental. Now there’s hardly anyone there, so it’s really nice.”

You mentioned Rob Newman before, and I see that next year marks the 30^th anniversary of the radio pilot of The Mary Whitehouse Experience.

“Really? I saw Rob’s show recently, the stand-up show he’s doing now, and we had a long chat after, and we get on really well now, me and him. Frank (Skinner) and me are mates and he lives in my road, and while I don’t see him every day I see him a lot and we’re still very close. Me and Rob aren’t, but we’ve become more friendly in the last year or so.

“He came to see my show in the West End. He tweeted, asking for tickets, not realising that was a public message! It was all very nice though. There’s no animosity anymore, which is nice, but I doubt we’re going to work together any more. What Rob does and what I do now don’t really link together in the same way.”

Sleeping Partners: The Mary Whitehouse’s (from the left) Steve Punt, Rob Newman, David Baddiel and Hugh Dennis get to grips with their inspiration. (Photo copyright: BBC)

I see at one point The Mary Whitehouse Experience might have been named The William Rees-Mogg Experience. Might we see a new spin on that now, as The Jacob Rees-Mogg Experience perhaps?

‘I’m very happy for someone else to do The Jacob Rees-Mogg Experience. And he could do it himself, because he is basically a comedy character. We have this situation now where politicians are like comedy characters – Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg … You can imagine them being played by Harry Enfield.

“It’s almost as if a politician can’t get noticed anymore unless he or she has big, stupid, grotesque characters. I don’t know why. But I suppose John Major managed to be Prime Minister for eight years and no one even noticed him.”

While we’re on politics, talking to Mark Steel recently about Trump’s America and Brexit Britain, he was of the opinion that – as per his latest live show – ‘Everything’s Gonna Be Alright’ and the tide is turning. Do you share that optimism?

“I don’t really know. I’d like to think so. Things are getting more extreme, and I think that’s driven mainly by technology. We have technology that allows very quick mass communication, all the time, and It suggests in theory there’s going to be this lovely communication between all people at all times.

“But what’s really happening is that those who shout loudest are the ones most heard. So you end up essentially with an internet troll being President of the United States. That has happened very quickly. I don’t think anyone could have imagined Donald Trump or someone like him being President 10 years ago. And that’s not for any other reason than because of the internet.

“That’s a man who built his image and brand on Twitter, and as we know you can build your image and brand there by just saying very brash, loud, mad things. That is a worry, but I don’t think it necessarily means everything will be terrible, because things go in cycles, and maybe there will be a calming down.”

You’re wrapped up with your tour at the moment, I’m sure, but are there any more novels on their way?

“Not adult books, but the children’s novels have done so well that I’ve become someone who thinks I should keep writing these, and they’re a joy to write and it’s a joy the way kids interact with them. I have another of those coming in October, which is going well, and I’m also written a film of the first one, The Parent’s Agency, which Is currently being thrashed out by the studio. We’re looking for a director at the moment. Then there’s AniMalcolm, my fourth children’s book, which is being made into a theatre show by Story Pocket Theatre, a puppet theatre company, and that will be touring in your area too.”

A year ago, David returned to our screens, with his brother Ivor in a moving documentary about their father, Colin Baddiel, filmed over the course of a year, charting their attempts to care for the 82-year-old, living with a form of frontotemporal dementia, known as Pick’s disease, that has affected the part of his brain that controls personality and behaviour.

You clearly got a good reaction to Channel 4’s The Trouble With Dad, which I’m guessing was the route for this show, in a sense.

“I was already doing this. In fact, it’s got footage in it of me doing this in the Menier Chocolate Factory when I started. The show’s changed quite a lot but it’s the same basic show. Then, because I was doing the show, the company who made that documentary got in touch, wondering if there was more to be said specifically about my Dad and this type of dementia.

“I wasn’t sure at first, but in the end they gave me and my brother a lot of control over it, and I felt very happy with that. And it seemed to touch a lot of people, that documentary. I was very glad to do it.”

You made a nice point recently about a perceived betrayal, letting on to others that a loved one has dementia when you haven’t had permission from them to say so. I’m sure a lot of us have encountered similar feelings of guilt.

“At the end of the day, I’d say that when one’s parents, either through death or dementia, aren’t able to tell their own stories, you have to accept that their children are the ones going to tell the story. You have a choice of going to silence or a very bland memory of them being a lovely person, or the true story, which will be more complicated. I consider it to be a bigger act of love to tell the true story. That’s the choice you have, and you’ll always be slightly conflicted about that. But I think the conflict is all part of it.”

You mentioned Frank Skinner before. Will you be off to Russia for the World Cup with him this June?

“We’re not planning anything. I’m still on tour for the first part. I’ve tried to carve out the England games, although for the big one against Belgium I think I’m in Stoke, so I’ve asked for it to be put back.

“The trouble with doing stuff around the World Cup is that you’re always dependent on what England do, and you don’t want to put too much store on that and build a whole show around England getting to the World Cup Final and winning it. I think that would be a mistake.”

Sofa so Good: Baddiel and Skinner catch up on the telly for Fantasy Football League. (Photo copyright: BBC)

When I spoke to Frank four years ago (with a link here), just before the World Cup in Brazil, he was of the opinion that he’d probably be happier watching it all at home rather than heading out there.

“Well, we’ve gone to quite a few, going to Germany in 2006 and South Africa in 2010, and had a brilliant time. Those podcasts were really fun. But it’s also nice to watch it at home, so I agree with him.”

You previously shared something of your family history on Who Do You Think You Are? In 2004, not least your Jewish heritage and details of the Government’s internment policy for refugees from Nazi Germany during the Second World War. That also proved to be powerful viewing.

“Well, I wrote a book about that, a novel called The Secret Purposes, based very loosely on my Grandfather’s experiences on the Isle of Man. I felt it wasn’t very well known, like a secret part of British history. And for me it remains so. I think most people still don’t know that refugees were interned on the Isle of Man, in the case of my Grandfather for around two years. But it’s good if it’s opened up something.”

Finally, it’s too late for our own parents, but dementia is a ticking timebomb for our futures. What, in your view, needs to be done? Is it about throwing money at scientific research, care improvements, or both?

“I don’t know. Sorry! All the things it involves with me talking about dementia in my show, people tend to come to me for answers. A woman wrote to me saying her Dad had got the same type of frontal lobe dementia that my Dad had and was getting no help from her local NHS authority, and did I have any advice. And I don’t.

“All I am is a comedian and a storyteller. I can only tell my own story. I can’t fix stuff like that. I wished her all the best, but I’m afraid I don’t know what should be done.”

Well, I’m sure just by talking about it so openly, you’re making a big difference, helping open up the debate.

“Well, I hope so. Thank you.”

Talking Family: David Baddiel, coming to a theatre near you at some stage over the next four months.

David Baddiel’s My Family: Not the Sitcom is out and about around the UK between now and July 2nd’s finale at Bristol Hippodrome. For a full list of dates and ticket information, head to his website.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Comedy & Theatre, Football | Tagged AniMalcolm, David Baddiel, dementia, Fantasy Football League, Frank Skinner, Lancaster Grand, Mary Whitehouse Experience, Morwenna Banks, My Family: Not the Sitcom, Peppa Pig, Rob Newman, The Parent Agency, The Secret Purposes, The Trouble With Dad, Who Do You Think You Are | 3 Comments

Getting by in time – back in touch with Rick Buckler

Posted on February 15, 2018 by writewyattuk

Stage Presence: The Jam back in the early days (Photo: The Jam/Rick Buckler)

To misquote A Town Called Malice, I’ll start by apologising for the things I’ve never done. On a family taxi duty the Sunday before last, I cut my eldest daughter short as she told me what she’d been up to that afternoon, so I could hear the radio. Then, 10 minutes later, my better half’s mum got similar short shrift on the next shuttle service, all social enquiries met with monosyllabic responses. But it’s Rick Buckler’s fault. Honest.

Rick was on BBC Radio 2, chatting to Johnnie Walker on Sounds of the 70s about his new book and halcyon days with The Jam, between some cracking selections from such a rich era for music. It was on the iPlayer later (still is, if you’re quick enough, via this BBC link), so I couldn’t really moan, but I just wanted to listen in live, hear one of my musical heroes.

The Jam were a big influence on me in the late ’70s and early ’80s, and remain so 35 years after front-man Paul pulled the plug. I’m not alone in that thinking. So many of us grew up with the band and other great acts from those punk, new wave and post-punk years, including Rick’s co-writer and previous writewyattuk interviewee Ian Snowball, who previously helped the legendary drummer with 2015’s That’s Entertainment: My Life in The Jam. There was crowd-funded 2017 illustrated novel, The Jam: The Start to ’77 too, and now a further great read, The Dead Straight Guide to The Jam. And Rick’s rightly proud of it.

The morning after his radio appearance, I told Rick (who previously featured on these pages in April 2015, with a link here) I enjoyed his radio guest slot, and it was nice to hear a presenter play less obvious choices, like 1977’s Batman Theme and Non-Stop Dancing and 1979’s The Butterfly Collector.

“I’m of the same mind. I very much like A Town Called Malice and all those tracks, but it’s great to hear others like Liza Radley, Ghosts, The Butterfly Collector … still fabulous. Of course, I would say that though, wouldn’t I!”

They’re just so evocative of that whole era.

“Yeah, to me they’re almost like old friends. You think, ‘Crikey, I haven’t heard this in such a long time!’ Like the Batman Theme.”

It was nice to hear your own choices too – Ian Dury, T-Rex, and XTC, who I’ve recently started listening to again, both them and psychedelic offshoot, The Dukes of Stratosphear. I always got the feeling that, as with bands like Wire, they were seen as too clever for that initial punk scene.

Seventies Icons: Johnnie Walker receives a visit from Rick Buckler, February 2018 (Photo: BBC)

“I was in a van one say and on the radio they were asking, ‘Do you know who this band is, and I’m going, ‘I know! I know!’ It was The Dukes of Stratophear. But it was one of those phone-in competitions, and by the time I’d had chance to phone it was too late. But that was a very strange offshoot for them.

“But yeah, I always felt an affinity with XTC. They weren’t really punk but were a great talent and some of the things they did were very innovative, very creative. They wrote for themselves. I thought that was a fabulous stance, especially where record companies were pushing everybody towards chart music, where the money is. I got on with them really well. They were from Swindon, and I’ve got family from there. My wife’s sister lives down there. I got into them with Drums and Wires, their third album, and met them on a couple of occasions, at Townhouse Studios.”

Of course, where The Jam recorded Setting Sons (1979) and Sound Affects (1980), just two of their four consecutive top-10 LPs, th last one, The Gift, a UK No.1. Then there were the 18 straight top-40 singles, including four No.1s, and so much more. And that’s just part of the story told by Rick and ‘Snowy’ in the new book – from the band’s Woking roots right through, including an 80-plus page ‘Jamology’.

But hang on. Another Jam book? Even before Paolo Hewitt’s A Beat Concerto in 1983, there was a lot written about The Jam. Is this Rick’s chance to set the record straight on a few of those, from someone who was actually there? Don’t get me wroing, it’s certainly a worthy accompaniment to Rick’s 2015 memoir, That’s Entertainment – My Life in The Jam.

“I know from experience there are some bad books about The Jam, written by people just doing it so they can make a fast buck, and it comes across like that when you read some of them. I know one guy who wrote one who never went to a Jam show yet writes about us as if he was there. It’s infuriating, because if people don’t know these things then pick up the book they think some of it’s true. I suppose I shouldn’t get annoyed, but I do, and I’m sure it annoys a lot of other people when things are said and written about that get proliferated, like Chinese whispers.

“One of the reasons I thought this would be nice to do was because the autobiography was about my story from the inside, so I didn’t get into facts and figures, why things were recorded, dates, tours, and all that. It was really more of a personal experience, an inside story of The Jam. So to be given the chance to put some of the stuff right from some of the other books that have come out … We did have some information put forward to include, lifted from Wikipedia, and we were like, ‘hang on, are you really suggesting that?”

There’s also an element of mythology about The Jam and other key bands from that era, which seems to have become accepted over the years as truth.

“There are a couple of dangers I come across, and one is people rewriting history to suit their situation now rather than talking about what was actually happening at the time. One thing that people who would like to read about this would like to see is stuff they feel is correct and not too much of an opinion, but not so wide of the mark.”

Was it a relief to get your version out and set the record straight on a fair bit?

“Well, yeah. That wasn’t the main reason, but it’s in the back of your mind when you’ve heard a story over and over again. Even the silly one about why The Jam got their name, this silly story about it coming from a pot of jam one morning, which is ridiculously wrong but often bandied about.

“We’ve tried very hard to get things factually right as much as we possibly can, even though it’s all a long time ago. I also don’t think it’s a good idea to put a political or personal agenda for the righting of any wrongs. It’s just a matter of trying to get it right. That was the main agenda, and Snowy was great in checking a lot of the facts.”

I have to give you full credit for, in That’s Entertainment (which I hadn’t had a chance to read before my last feature/interview with Rick), trying to avoid anything too detrimental about your relationship with (fellow ex-bandmates) Paul (Weller) and Bruce (Foxton). It’s as if the music press is out to goad the three of you sometimes, feeding an appetite for a perceived, public war of words.

“Well, you could rub your hands together, think, ‘Now’s me chance!’ But I have to tap myself on the shoulder, have a word with myself, say, ‘Come on!’ The relationship might not be really close with Paul and might not be really close with Bruce, but back in the day it was very close, and I think the fans like to hear it without any encumbrances, shall we say.

“I look back with very fond memories, how we managed to do really good things, achieve a great deal. All the bickering and court cases, that sort of stuff happened after. It was a real shame it did, but it had nothing to do with what people actually remember about The Jam or what actually put us on the road to where we are. So I try and stay away from all that.”

You see it a lot with successful bands, with people cut out from someone’s past, and it often takes a long time for old wounds to heal. You seem to have remained fairly grounded though. On the kiss-and-make-up front, we haven’t quite got there with The Jam, but maybe Paul’s never been the sort to publicly acknowledge all aspects of his past. He’s always appears to be more about looking forward, not dwelling on what’s gone.

“Well, that’s always been his attitude, and it’s a real shame, talking to the fans. I think a lot of them don’t like the idea that he was in denial about The Jam for a long time, and when he was with The Style Council he wouldn’t play the songs, he wouldn’t talk about it. It was almost as if it didn’t exist and it wasn’t the reason why he was where he was. A lot of Jam fans don’t like that attitude.

“I think fame has its pressures though, which sometimes people don’t realise unless you’re in that situation. It’s easy to isolate yourself from the world – that’s the easy way out. This may sound a bit crazy, but from a very early age I never liked pop stars, and I mean that in the most derogatory term! People who might think, ‘Don’t you know who I am?’ It turns me off completely.”

Perhaps that’s why the initial punk scene appealed to you, Paul and Bruce – that whole ‘year zero’ mentality, starting on an equal plane.

“Yeah, it was something that brought everything together – that attitude of not needing big record companies and this mega-arena rock attitude. That was very strong. People starting fanzines, saying they could do all this themselves – create our own audiences, make our own magazines. There was that ethos, which was fabulous.”

At that point, we went off-subject, reminiscing about our mutual Surrey history, not least respective links to Woking, our fathers and their days as postmen and working on the railway before that, plus links to the town’s James Walker factory, where both my Grandad Wyatt and Paul’s dad John Weller (who managed The Jam) worked. Rick lives on the outskirts of his hometown these days. Does he ever wander around town? His namesake, Status Quo guitar legend Rick Parfitt, let on that he’d often sit in a car outside key locations around Woking and reminisce about his youth. How about this Rick?

“I do go into Woking. There isn’t very much of it left though! Even as we speak, they’ve knocked down another part, putting something else up. Some of the bits I remember as a child are simply not there anymore. The place is a different town altogether.”

As I’m transcribing all this, Weller’s lines, ‘The Place I Love is a million miles away’ and ‘Found myself in a Strange Town’ spring to mind. Then again, I’ve plenty of great Jam quotes floating around my head most days.

“It is a shame. But on the other hand, there’s a lot of housing, and Church Street (where his first family home was) was a very long road. I don’t know how the Germans managed to miss it! It should have been demolished a long time ago. When we were living there, they were absolutely dreadful, those houses. So I don’t really hanker after those days in that respect.

“My Mum’s still alive. She’s 97 and doesn’t talk much about the war, but it became such a big part of everybody’s lives, with no say-so in it. A real life-changer for everybody. Of course, that James Walker factory’s all gone now.”

At this point, Rick recounts a story told in That’s Entertainment about the day John Weller, in his Teddy Boy days, ran out of Brylcreem so applied butter to his DA quiff with his comb to keep it in place, then fell asleep on the factory roof one sunny day after working on some repairs, waking up to the smell of burning popcorn in his hair.

We soon get on to the subject of great bands from that era doing the rounds again, not least friends of The Jam like The Vapors (with interviews with Dave Fenton and Ed Bazalgette elsewhere on this site, plus a late 2016 review from Liverpool Arts Club). Then of course, there’s From the Jam, Rick having left after four years in 2009, but with founder members Bruce Foxton and Russell Hastings still out there, and recording too. Those two bands, and fellow Surrey lads The Stranglers have proved it doesn’t just have to be a heritage nostalgia thing.

“I think so. I’m in two minds about some bands getting back together. I did it because I wanted to revisit the songs. Which we did, and I thought that was absolutely fabulous.”

And you didn’t really get that chance before, with the band splitting when they did in late ’82. I get the feeling Bruce has really enjoyed revisiting all those songs live. As you did … to to an extent.

“Yeah. In the same way, a lot of the Modern World songs got passed over, for all sorts of reasons. But after a while it is very disheartening to just keep playing the same old stuff. A band mustn’t become boring. Once you get into that state of doing it over and over again … It’s nice to do it for the fans, but it can be soul-destroying.”

I did get that vibe from your That’s Entertainment book, but that’s something Bruce and Russell seem to have moved on from. Which is a kind of a shame from your point of view, because I know you wanted to go down that road – writing songs again, something they’ve done since. Very good ones too.

“Yeah, it’s a shame Bruce didn’t pick up on that at the time, because … It was a dilemma, because people came to see us to hear Jam songs, and Dave Moore (with From The Jam at the beginning, but leaving in the same year as Rick) had written songs. Bruce wasn’t a prolific writer. That’s not really his thing, so we had some new material, but it just wasn’t going to be entertained.

“It was a bit of a choice – do we bite the hand that feeds us by not playing so much Jam stuff and trying to move on? Bruce wasn’t really into that, at all. But he must have come around to it since.”

Away from the writing, and with your band days seemingly behind you, are you still involved with band management and consultancy?

“I’m not doing anything with anyone at the moment. The last thing I did was with a young band. Most of the time I got involved because I’ve liked what I’ve seen in them and I’ve thought I could help, getting them shows. But it’s very frustrating that you can’t approach record companies, because they’re simply not interested these days. It’s all so media-driven. It’s not quite the same, but from a ground level it’s nice to give a band a hand.

“The Brompton Mix were the band I last had something to do with. They found it very difficult to get gigs outside Woking, and were running out of places to play in that area. I at least got them supports with The UK Subs and The Blockheads and Stiff Little Fingers, and as far afield as Southampton and going up North. That was good, but it was the usual problems with bands – keeping it all together with girlfriends, jobs, peer pressure … Unfortunately, they fell apart at the seams eventually – an old story as far as bands are concerned.”

Thinking back to your own formative days with The Jam, did Chris Parry (who signed them to Polydor) look after the three of you?

“He did, yeah. He was a good man to have on your side. He was obviously a conduit to the record company, but was a drummer himself, a New Zealander who’d come over to make his way in the world, in the industry. He had a lot of empathy with what we were doing and I think he was genuinely excited about the band and what was happening in London.

“At that time, I remember mostly that we’d like seeing him because he’d take us out to spend record company money on a free lunch! You were expected to work all day and most of the night in a recording studio, so to have somebody there who could take you out and know where some of these restaurants and burger bars were … well, it made us feel that there was somebody on our side.”

Have your children followed you into the music industry?

“Not at all. They’re doing okay though. My son works in online credit card security, and is good with computers. He’s doing well for himself, while my daughter’s in events management. She worked at the Ritz until recently and now works for another London company. Well, I keep calling them children, but my son’s 32 and my daughter’s 25!”

Time flies. And am I right in saying it’s 40 years with your better half, Lesley, this year? That’s a long stretch, something to be proud of.

“Yes! We were living together a long time before we married. You get less for murder. Ha! No, I shouldn’t say things like that. It’s amazing and I suppose in this day and age that (amount of time) seems unusual.”

Getting back to the book, it includes a ‘top 50’ of Jam tracks compiled by you and Snowy, with in-depth detail. That’s no easy task, surely – trying to choose which to include.

“It wasn’t really. We had to go for more obvious choices, then look at other singles, key album tracks, then found we had a few left and could think about songs I felt were under-heard, take that route.

“I enjoyed going through the process of why songs were recorded, how they came about. There’s this school of thought that Paul wrote everything. I’m not taking anything away from Paul. He did write a lot of lyrics and come in with a lot of ideas, but so did we.

“Start, for instance, was from a bassline that Bruce was playing around with, so you could argue that he wrote that and Paul added lyrics. But that’s not the way it’s credited, and there’s a lot of that.”

Well, I think of Funeral Pyre, which seemed to be was built around your drumming.

“Well, yeah, and I think by that time someone had to have a word. By that time it was blatantly unfair. But the point I’m making is … we worked together, put songs together, rehearsed together. How we were going to play and present and how they were written was very much a band process.”

Talking of which, and you touched on this with Johnnie Walker, it was such an impressive noise you made, despite only being a three-piece. I get the impression there’s nowhere to hide as a trio.

“There is no place to hide, and we learned that quite early on. I think we were struggling to be a four-piece, so really felt we had to work hard, and that alone justified what the band were about. I think that’s why we were so powerful on stage – the fact that everybody’s pulling their weight and filling all those gaps with interesting things. We were big fans of cutting out the rubbish. If we thought it was getting boring or irrelevant, we’d drop it straight away – cut straight to the chase.”

This Day in Music’s Guide to The Jam by Rick Buckler & Ian Snowball is available now, revised and republished from its original edition, linked here.

Furthermore, my conversation with Rick included his recollections and thoughts on The Jam’s relationship with late ’70s / early ’80s rivals, The Clash, later incorporated in This Day in Music’s Guide to The Clash, which is linked here.

Meanwhile, Ian Snowball has just completed The Last Black Angel (New Haven Publishing) with co-writer Pete McKenna, set around the New York punk scene. For more details check out Snowy’s Facebook writer’s page.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Music | Tagged Chris Parry, From The Jam, Ian Snowball, Johnnie Walker, paul weller, Polydor, Rick Buckler, Sounds of the 70s, That's Entertainment, The Brompton Mix, The Dead Straight Guide to The Jam, The Jam, The Vapors, Woking, XTC | 1 Comment

Don’t worry ’bout a thing – back in conversation with Mark Steel

Posted on February 15, 2018 by writewyattuk

Bench Mark: Comedian, broadcaster and writer Mark Steel is heading for your town, again (Photo: Idil Sukan)

Have a chat with stand-up comic Mark Steel and it won’t be long before cricket, football or politics come up in conversation. And in my case all three, with geography and history thrown in.

The 57-year-old Kentish comedian, broadcaster, writer and political activist was at home in South London when I called, or ‘Crystal Palace, as ever’, as he put it. But he’s back on tour now. Does he, like Brighton fan Attila the Stockbroker, try to fit gigs around fixtures for his beloved football team?

“Well, every now and again one pops up on a midweek night in the Premier League, shifted for Phantasmagoric Tuesday, or something.”

We’re quickly off on a tangent, on to the subject of my own team, Woking, Mark becoming the interviewer, asking where we are in the league and all manner of questions, not least how tough it is at present for those teams without the ready finance to compete against so many ex-Football League sides trying to get back there. Yet, I tell him, I’d prefer that than having to deal with the prospect of some fly-by-night financial backer coming in, bankrupting the club then buggering off, potentially losing a club’s community-like vibe.

He understands that logic and starts talking about the up-and-down fortunes in recent seasons of everyone from Truro City to Wigan Athletic, and we eventually get back to our main subject, not least talk of how his BBC Radio 4 show, Mark Steel’s in Town – eight series into a run that started in 2009 – gives him an insight into pride of place issues.

“Doing my In Town series, I very much get a sense of that faux-nostalgic belief that community is something we had in the ‘60s and has now gone. But that over-plays what it was like then, and under-plays what it’s like now. I don’t think that series would work if there wasn’t a strong sense of community in all these towns … whatever that means.

“I suppose it’s about whether people in a town can all identify with the same thing and feel a sense of belonging to their one place, if I was to be like some twaddly academic about it. But some nights I can say something about a place, and everyone will tell you they know that person, that place, that accent, that something.”

Before we spoke, I revisited that hit series’ spin-off book, and the opening chapter about his 2010 visit to Penzance, Cornwall, reminding him how a woman in the audience had an interesting definition of the word ‘posh’, telling him of nearby resort St Ives, where, ‘It’s posh alright, they’ve got a dentist!’

“Oh God, yeah. That was brilliant. I remember that very well.”

Wigan Peer: Mark Steel, in his Palace scarf naturally, takes in the Northern air on a visit to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal during a previous visit to Wigan.

I’m guessing moments like that must make live gigs unpredictable and fun to do, making up for the longer journeys.

“Well, Carl (Cooper), my producer, is really enthusiastic, and we’ll fetch up at a place and excitedly wonder what’s going to happen. It’s like a little adventure every time. We’ve already worked out six places for the next series. And at some point I’ll get round to writing it – God knows when!”

Anywhere in the North West on that list?

“Erm … well, I’ve already done Wigan, Birkenhead, Stockport, Wilmslow … oh, and Fleetwood.”

Ah, the ancestral home of the throat lozenge.

“Yeah, brilliant. We actually had a tour of the Fisherman’s Friend factory.”

Excellent. I can see you in your white coat and hygienic hairnet now.

“Yeah, I was in the white coat when we got shown around. Of course, the perfect joke was that the woman who was supposed to be showing us round hadn’t come in because she had a cold.”

Splendid. On your Twitter profile page, there’s a picture of you at The Garlic Farm. That’s on the Isle of Wight, isn’t it?

“Yeah, we were playing Ventnor that day, just after Edinburgh.”

You’re clearly still putting in the miles, and on this tour started (last weekend) in land-locked Loughborough, Leicestershire, before a trek to the South coast the following night to play Poole, Dorset.

“God knows where we’re going. To be honest with you, I don’t look until three days before. Otherwise you’d just go mad. When I was doing a live version for the In Town series, I had to pay more attention, because I was doing loads of stuff about each town, having to look about three weeks in advance, get a book off the internet about each place.”

Mileage Man: If it Thursday, it must be Barnard Castle (Photo: BBC / Mark Steel’s in Town)

Seeing as you return to Chorley Little Theatre next month (Wednesday, March 21st, 01257 264362), last time we spoke, four years ago, you said you must be the only outsider who’s read Jim Heyes’ A History of Chorley twice.

“Yeah, I must be … I can’t remember any of it, though.”

So might he have to read it a third time, I asked him. He wasn’t to be drawn on that though.

“Mmm … it’s lovely though, isn’t it, the Little Theatre.”

It is indeed, and then in mid-May, you’re in East Lancashire, at Darwen’s Library Theatre, which I’m led to believe is already sold out.

“Oh right, is it? Great!”

And there’s another visit to my patch two days later, to the Lancaster Grand Theatre (Thursday, May 17th, 01524 64695).

“Yeah, that’s great, that theatre. In fact, there are two lovely theatres in Lancaster, with the Dukes as well. And I’ve a lovely little story about that for the show.”

Sounds intriguing. Now I’m not expecting a succinct answer here, but – stirring the hornet’s nest – I ask Mark how the hell we ended up with Donald Trump winning the US election and what’s going on with all this Brexit nonsense. Every day seems to bring another political embarrassment.

“Well, I just think they’re all so funny, these people at the moment, the way things are at the moment. Every week they seem to oblige by doing something. Like that Presidents’ Club thing, where they all start saying how appalling it was, and how they had no idea. At the same time they’re saying that, they suggest the women going along would surely know what was going on there.

“So, the women who’d never been before must have known what to expect, but the blokes who were there couldn’t possibly have known what was going on, even though it was them doing it? You’re supposed to be appalled by these things, but I find it all quite funny, really.”

Lozenge Locale: Mark Steel, a Fisherman’s Friend, apparently (Photo: BBC / Mark Steel’s in Town)

It’s certainly a rich area for comedy, but maybe too rich at times – unbelievable at times.

“On the other hand, think back to a year ago, it’s an extraordinary transformation in British society. I don’t know if it’s a British thing or a human thing, but we almost love being miserable, thinking everything’s shit and that nothing ever changes, when there’s just about been the biggest change in British society since the end of the Second World War this last year.

“Someone for whom it was deemed impossible for him to be even vaguely near elected – because he was scruffy and didn’t sing the national anthem and had links to the IRA and all these things – to have got that close, is absolutely astonishing.

“It reminds me of when I’m down the Palace and Zaha beats four players then doesn’t quite get a cross in, and people come away saying, ‘Ah, he wasn’t that good that day’. You’ve got to forget that! We’re not meant to have players like that. It’s extraordinary that we’ve got one of the best players in the country, and every week he bamboozles people. You just get used to it.

“It’s a bit like that with the idea that the Tories are bumbling. It’s staggering. They’re completely fucked. I think it’s hilarious, from a pure comedy point of view … never mind the politics.

“Every day, they’re just funny! Just watching them is funny, stumbling about, turning up in Brussels, having brought the wrong papers, or Ian Duncan Smith more or less telling you not to take any notice of their latest report, because they’re always wrong. It’s kind of, ‘Don’t listen to us, we’re idiots’.”

And yet, according to the title of your new show, ‘Every Thing’s Gonna Be Alright.’

“I think so, yeah.”

Golden Delivery: Mark Steel on Andy Murray’s trail in Dunblane (Photo: BBC / Mark Steel’s in Town)

Does this new-found philosophy involve some kind of Bob Marley-esque connection with Jah?

“Yeah, very much a Bob Marley-esque connection with Jah! Actually, I do most of the show in Rastafarian, if people can follow that. I had a Rastafarian character I did, and it went down really well in London and Birmingham, but elsewhere people would look at me, completely bemused.”

At this point we got on to a mutual respect for Lincolnshire-based Brummie performance poet, Benjamin Zephaniah, Mark telling me a funny tale his fellow political activist and author related to him about Communards keyboard player turned celebrity clergyman Richard Coles’ spell with the church in nearby Boston (his first ecclesiastical role was as a curate at St Botolph’s, better known as ‘Boston Stump’). I’ll not repeat it here, but ask him at a show. It’s a winning anecdote.

As well as his radio show, his books (also including Reasons To Be Cheerful and What’s Going On) and his tours, there was the BAFTA-nominated Mark Steel Lectures for BBC2. He’s also a regular on BBC1’s Have I Got News For You and Radio 4’s Newsquiz, has appeared on BBC2’s QI and Room 101 and writes a weekly column for The Independent, winning Columnist of the Year at 2015’s Press Awards.

His most recent TV appearance saw him through to the final of BBC1’s Pointless quiz, alongside fellow comic Marcus Brigstocke on a celebrity special, just missing out on a jackpot. Keen cricket fan Mark was desperately unlucky with his answers – asked to name three batsmen who had scored more than 5,000 runs for Australia, his choices scoring 1, 1 and 2.

“That’s why it’s such a brilliant game though – it’s not enough to know the answer. You’ve got to get the answer no one else knows! I was thinking, ‘Who’s going to know these?’ I chose Ian Chappell, Mark Taylor and Justin Langer. I even thought Matthew Hayden was too obvious. But Taylor scored two and the others one. There must have been one Australian person on the survey. And if I ever catch the bastard …”

A while back I was talking to fellow recent Pointless winner Robin Ince (alongside TV historian Kate Williams) and another of Mark’s friends from the comedy circuit, Phill Jupitus, both of whom have also put in the comedy circuit miles over the years. Does he get to meet any of his colleagues on the road? I imagine they’re more often than not booked into hotel rooms in different towns.

“That’s one of the reasons I love the Edinburgh Festival – then you get to see other comics, at last. You go months without seeing them. I don’t think I’ve seen Phill since August.”

Finally, it’s been getting on for 36 years since his stand-up debut, and Mark mentions on his website, ‘I’ve spoken at lots of demonstrations and union meetings and protests, and appeared at quite a few benefits, and yet capitalism still seems to rule the world. Maybe I’m a jinx.’ I put this quote to him, and he laughed, then proclaimed, “Yeah … things are funny though, aren’t they.”

Hat’s Entertainment: Mark Steel reckons ‘Everythng’s Gonna Be Alright’.

For the previous Mark Steel feature/interview on these pages, from May 2014, head here.

This interview also included Mark and I talking about his love of The Clash, the inspirational Rock Against Racism movement, and his own story from the night Mick Jones joined Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros in November 2012, in what turned out to be Strummer’s final London gig. But for all that, you’ll have to wait for The Dead Straight Guide to The Clash, due to be published by Red Planet this coming Spring.

In the meantime, Mark Steel’s tour continues this weekend, including February and March dates at: Saturday February 17 – Hertford Theatre (01992 531500), Monday February 19th – Newcastle-under-Lyme New Vic Theatre (01782 717962), Thursday February 22nd – Chesham Elgiva (01494 582900), Friday February 23rd (Newbury Corn Exchange (0845 5218 218), Saturday February 24th – Bangor Pontio (01248 382828), Sunday February 25th – Kettering Lighthouse Theatre (01536 414141), Thursday March 1st – Swindon Wyvern Theatre (01793 524481), Friday March 2nd – Nottingham Playhouse (0115 941 9419), Thursday March 8th – Andover The Lights (01264 368368), Saturday March 10th – Oxford Playhouse (01865 305305), Thursday March 15th – Bury St Edmunds The Apex (01284 758000), Friday March 16th – Westcliff-on-Sea Palace Theatre (01702 351135), Sunday March 18th – Southampton NST Campus (023 8067 1771), Wednesday March 21st – Chorley Little Theatre (01257 264362), Thursday March 22nd – Glasgow Citizens Theatre (0141 429 0022), Friday March 23rd – Stockton ARC (01642 525199), Wednesday March 28th – Northampton Royal & Derngate (01604 624811), Thursday March 29th – Dorchester Arts / Corn Exchange (01305 266 926).

The tour continues in April and May, right through to May 25th’s Margate Theatre Royal finale. For all the details and ticket information head to www.offthekerb.co.uk or www.marksteelinfo.co.uk.

Posted in Books Films, TV & Radio, Comedy & Theatre, Football, Music | Tagged Benjamin Zephaniah, Boston, chorley, Chorley Little Theatre, Crystal Palace, Lancaster, Lancaster Grand Theatre, Mark Steel, Mark Steel's in Town, Phill Jupitus, Pointless, Richard Coles, Robin Ince | 3 Comments

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