Discovering Tresor – the Gwenno feature/interview

Posted on June 2, 2022 by writewyattuk
International Tresor: Gwenno Saunders, set to release her third LP. Photo: Claire Marie Bailey

It was on the last day of February that I first caught the quirky promo video of ‘An Stevel Nowydh’, the lead single from Tresor, the third full-length solo LP by Cardiff-based Gwenno Saunders, an album finally set to reach the shops on Friday, July 1st.

Here at last was a welcome early sign of the Spring to follow, the sight of this acclaimed electronica artist, producer and chanteuse in boilersuit and druid’s garb high-kicking her way around the back streets of Downalong St Ives, West Cornwall – breaking down those metaphorical barriers and doors, letting the light in, after a restorative tea party with a difference in a neolithic cave – certainly one to quicken my step.

Then, 10 weeks later, with Summer ever closer, came a promo video for ‘Tresor’, online a few hours before our long-planned conversation, the new single and title track of an album like 2018’s Le Kov recorded mainly in Cornish, as opposed to her 2015 Welsh language debut for Heavenly Recordings, Y Dydd Olaf.

Described as a ‘scrapbook of sorts’, the latest promo was collected from a week recording in St Ives in early 2020 and subsequent lockdown days back in Cardiff, including Super8 clips from Gwenno’s Tresor film, shot by Clare Marie Bailey, starring her friends Edward Rowe (Bait, The Witcher) and Pinar Ögün (Keeping Faith, Fflam) as Anima and Animus, taking a similar collage approach to that she uses writing with co-producer, musical collaborator and partner, Rhys Edwards.

“We record everything at home, without the time restrictions of studios and session musicians. It’s a very DIY approach and I think this video reflects that honestly.”

That promo also reflects her growing interest in film and ‘the intersection of music with visual components, evoking a dreamworld from another time, surreal and sensual, saturated with light and colour’.

There’s also a short film for instrumental ‘Men an Toll’, this time involving lots of Bronze Age stone hugging from Gwenno, giving me the impression I might be in for the sort of interview I enjoyed with Julian Cope in 2015, full of reference to fogous, ley lines and standing stones.

Besides, maybe it was the surrounding ancient scenery causing us reception issues as we abandoned a Skype call and hopped over to WhatsApp. Was she back in the Far West of England per chance?

“Ah, no, I wish, I’m in Cardiff at the moment – nowhere as mystical as that, unfortunately!”

While Y Dydd Olaf (The Final Day) tackled technological alienation, Le Kov (The Place of Memory) took on the idea of homeland and proved more international in outlook, presenting the Cornish language to the world and giving it an unprecedented platform as she toured Europe and Australia in her own right and as a support to Suede and Manic Street Preachers.

A performance of ‘Tir ha Mor’ on Later with Jools Holland helped spread the word, TV debates on the subject following with the likes of Michael Portillo, Jon Snow, and Nina Nannar, interest in learning Cornish (Kernewek) reportedly soon hitting an all-time high.

Gwenno, recently turned 41, was a solo artist singing in Cornish and Welsh long before her winning spell with The Pipettes, the indie-pop outfit best known for 2006 hits ‘Your Kisses Are Wasted On Me’ and ‘Pull Shapes’, and that year’s We Are The Pipettes LP.

Her formative years were spent as an Irish dancer, leading to tours with Michael Flatley’s Lord of the Dance and Feet of Flames productions, Gwenno later acting in Welsh language soap opera Pobol y Cwm, and even hosting her own S4C programme. She also toured as a synth player with Elton John in 2012.

But she was always keen on promoting the protection of minority languages, drawing on her upbringing as the daughter of Welsh and Cornish language activists. And while her first solo LP won the 2015 Welsh Music Prize and also the Best Welsh Album at Wales’s National Eisteddfod, it’s worth noting that the last of its 10 songs, ‘Amser’ (Time), was in Cornish.

In fact, Cardiff-born Gwenno – who also co-hosts and co-produces a radio show in her home city – grew up thinking Cornish was every bit as much a living language as Welsh. That wasn’t the case, but in time there would soon be a revival, and she saw it as important as a fluent speaker to help celebrate the survival of Britain’s lesser-known language in that divisive age of Brexit, keen to speak out on the importance of respecting and forging links with other cultures, no matter how small. 

In 2018 the Cornish Language Board claimed Le Kov contributed to a 15% increase in the number of people taking Cornish language exams that year, with Gwenno becoming a Bard of the Cornish Gorsedh the following year for ‘services to the Cornish language through music and the media’.

Now, with Tresor (Treasure), she’s shifted the focus on to her journey of rediscovery after becoming a mum, this time exploring domesticity and desire, reclaiming the body, working out how to exist as herself as well as care first and foremost for someone else … in her case a son, now six.

Musically, the influences on the new record span from Ryuichi Sakamoto to Eden Ahbez and William Basinski, on an LP as psychedelically tinged as her previous work, yet this time targetingthe unconsciouswhile exploring the power of the feminine voice, inspired by the Cornish landscape and how it asserts itself in ‘presenting a richly melodic counterpoint to a place and people known for rugged survival and jagged edges’.  

As for the title song, Gwenno sees the dreamy ‘Tresor’ as questioning what makes us human and our conscious choice to either have a positive or negative impact on our environment and everything around us.

“We live in a chaotic world and what impacts on our ability to make positive decisions is largely circumstantial. The song is about trying to connect with our ability to do the right thing at a point where everything is in flux, in crisis, and the foundation of our society is changing.

Ancient Imagery: Gwenno Saunders,on location in West Cornwall, finding Tresor. Photo: Claire Marie Bailey

“How do we connect with our responsibilities and instinct to commit to the collective in a largely individualistic society? ‘Tresor’ is an homage to an older, analog world, the soundtracks to European cinema, and a final fair farewell to the 20th Century.”

While I was in Lancashire and Gwenno was in Glamorgan, we started our conversation in Cornwall, where the writing process for the new LP got underway, pre-lockdown.

“It was really strange, I’d gone down to St Ives in January 2020, and I’d been doing a lot of touring, a lot of collaborating, I’d just done a live score of Mark Jenkin’s Bait film, and I’d done a theatre production, so I really wanted to take stock, just go back into the unconscious a little.

“The last record I wrote, Le Kov, was entirely in Cornish, but based on a distant place, really, somewhere I learned about from my Dad. I’d grown up speaking the language, and it was my take on that experience. But when I went down to St Ives, over that period making that record, it introduced me to a lot of artists in Cornwall, and I got to know people much better.

“That was part of the reason I made it – I really wanted to make that connection, wanting to work out what that was. That opened up a whole new world, a community of artists, so I felt confident enough to maybe go to Cornwall itself, whereas Le Kov was written in Cardiff.

“I was like, ‘How would I feel if I went to Cornwall and wrote the record there?’. I thought I was going down for a week and wouldn’t see a soul – this was January, pre-pandemic. But when I got off the train, I bumped into a friend straightaway, ending up having this really warm and welcoming week, seeing quite a lot of people. That was really reassuring and fed into the record.

“It was about how that would make me feel, writing, and wasn’t the isolating experience I thought, because I’d got to know quite a few artists and people since writing Le Kov. And not wanting to repeat myself, I just wanted to be driven more by the unconscious, desires and frustrations rather than be too somatic with my songwriting, just letting the music lead the way.

“That was a big part of it, and I explored a lot of universal themes through the language, because I was interested in the emotion of first-hand experience of feeling something in Cornish, rather than writing a record about the language that was sort of pseudo-academic – less of an essay or presentation, more, ‘This is how it feels when it’s alive’.

“So there’s the frustrations and there’s the joy, and all those things, and it’s more of a day-to-day intimate album.”

You clearly had ideas beforehand, but I wondered if the melodies predated the words, or the other way round. Because you clearly have to explore different rhythms, writing in another language.

“Yeah, when you write, you’re working at it, then moments of inspiration come to you. And I was very conscious of … for example, I stayed in an artist’s studio in St Ives, in the last area of Cornwall where there were fluent Cornish speakers, and I’ve always felt quite connected to the place anyway. And because it was January 2020 and the dire situation with regards to (ermpty) second homes, I felt there were quite a lot of spirits involved in the process.

“I always feel like that, and with ‘Tresor’, the song, you’re very conscious that life and death are the same in terms of when people leave their traces. So many of the souls that are part of every album I make tend to be from other centuries, but I feel they’re completely alive. I was pondering that a lot because, for me, people that like – and it’s probably because they’re not close family to me – I don’t see the death, because they’re still there, and I think that fed into the spirit of the album. So it felt less conscious.”

There’s certainly lots of rich imagery in your videos, like the Celtic crosses and focus on past civilisations in that part of the world. Which brings me to Edward Rowe, the actor best known to some as his comic alter ego, Kernow King, now known too for his role in Bait. Was that the first time you met him?

“Ah, that was amazing, but I knew him before. He’d come to shows and we crossed paths a few times at festivals. It was him and a good friend of mine, Pinar (Ögün), from Turkey, and she’s a really special person. I created this short film, with that imagery part of the film. It was great to be able to be a casting director, and I definitely wanted those two to be together because of what they represent.”

As you put it yourself, you’ve taken that collage-like approach with the video in the same way you do with your music. And there are plenty of sound collages in your work.

“Yeah, that’s how I make records with Rhys (Edwards), and how things come together. Everything’s a scrapbook. It comes from everywhere. We don’t go into studios to record our music, so everything’s collected along the way, like this big bag of sound! It’s about piecing it all together, and I wanted to create a visual interpretation of the same thing, which is exactly how the record’s made.”

You mention a love of European film, and there’s definitely a ‘60s film feel on the title track, reminding me in parts of Jackie Lee’s ‘White Horses’ and John Barry’s Midnight Cowboy title music.

“Yeah, we were listening to a lot of Eden Ahbez. And it was strange that it just came out in the song, which is one of those where you feel it was already written. And it’s probably the most conventional song I’ve written in a really long time.

“We’ve also listened to a huge amount of Ennio Morricone, and with Fellini being part of it, and a lot of European cinema … because we’re really obsessed with Europe, desperate to be part of it still! That feeds into it, and, y’know, we feel European, so there’s piano from Vienna, soundscapes from Venice … We don’t explore our own culture because we want to be insular, we explore it because we want to be part of the world!”

It seems that you’ve always had that internationalist world view. You speak a few languages, not just English, Cornish and Welsh, but Spanish as well, and I understand your Dad speaks Breton too.

“Yeah, it’s always been about as many cultures as … y’know, being very aware of the diversity of culture and how exciting that is. Even within Britain, the amount of different cultures that feed into the experience and how joyful that is, and how brilliantly colourful that makes the world.”

You certainly seem to bring that joyfulness into your songs and accompanying videos, such as when you’re high-kicking your way around St Ives, as if breaking down doors and freeing those spirits. I was also interested by you writing about the Men-an-Tol standing stones, not least having sought those out on a walk before now, and being struck by their serene feel.

“Oh, it’s such a special place, and I was struck by how peaceful it was and a feeling of contemplation. And so much of the record is about where those spiritual foundations crossover into Christianity, and a lot of my film is to do with where that clash happens and them coming from a very similar place. And in Cornwall as well, because the Cornish language revival is a lot to do with Celtic Christianity, whereas there are huge other elements of Cornish culture that are very inspired by paganism and Neolithic elements.

“There’s a lot of different spiritual ideas happening, and I think they’re all part of the same pot – I don’t think it’s ‘either or’. But I find it very interesting that we’re trying to work out what our spirituality is. I think people are drawn to these things more and more. And it’s not just a passing trend, I think it’s because we’re searching for meaning, and we always will. We think we’re a secular society, but I don’t know if not having any spiritual meaning is possible for human beings, because we’ve always searched for it. So I was interested in those themes, how valid those ideas are, and how wonderful they are to give you that inner peace.”

When the world locked down, part-way through making Tresor, you headed back to Cardiff to carry on working, juggling that with family duties.

“Yeah, we were home-schooling and recording, and Rhys was playing drums, bass and guitar. So there were lots of elements. Obviously, everyone had very different lockdowns, so that’s kind of a reflection of it, but the point really is that I’d written this before lockdown, so was kind of anticipating something, a need to stop, a need to reflect … before anything was known about what was going to come next.”

Before I heard anything from this LP, I was surprised to see Gwenno chatting to Michael Portillo for his Coastal Devon and Cornwall walks series on Channel 5, on a windblown headland in Tintagel, talking about her music and the Cornish language, and how elements of her work fit those amazing landscapes. Not as if I’d ever have put money on seeing her have an amiable chinwag with a former Government minister who served under Margaret Thatcher.

“Neither would I! They do tend to be random events that happen, and I’m sort of open to it, because I have these opportunities to have conversations with people that I never thought I’d ever cross paths with!”

A discussion followed about us warming to Michael Portillo in more recent years, wondering if the current Government lurching so far to the right made him seem more centre-ground now … or perhaps he’s just mellowed with age. Gwenno put it down to the idea of people being better at one thing than another, a sign that we ‘don’t have the best society’, which brought us on to the current Government.

Coastal Wander: Michael Portillo with Gwenno on the Cornish coast path, at Tintagel. Photo: Channel 5.

“The politicians we have now shouldn’t be in that job. They can’t do that job! Beyond them being hideous, they’re clearly not in the right job. That’s not what they should be doing.”

True. If Boris Johnson was just some dusty old academic, I might see humour in his bumbling rogue and eccentric character demeanor … his grandiose passion coming over …

“Yeah. He needs to be in a job with no authority … but not Prime Minister!”

In Robin Turner’s …Believe in Magic, the story of Heavenly Recordings, the label’s co-founder, Jeff Barrett, who first met Gwenno when she was supporting Gruff Rhys on his American Interior tour, wrote, ‘How many people are lucky enough in life to find themselves working with an artist who, when you say, ‘Have you started thinking about your second record yet?’ replies, ‘Yes, and it’s going to be in Cornish’. I count myself as a lucky bastard to have met Gwenno and to be working with someone who feels that they can work with our label and do that. When she told me she was making the record in Cornish it was a nice moment. My mother was Cornish and I’ve had a strong affinity with the county ever since I first went there.

‘I knew that we had a really good chance with Le Kov because, quality of the music aside, there was a story there. There’s an intelligence, a thought process and there’s a concept. All brought together by a highly articulate artist. Her concept was a unique thing. Nobody else had done it. I’m not saying nobody’s made a record in the Cornish language, but nobody has made a record in the Cornish language after making a record in the Welsh language after having been in an English language pop group.

‘I’ve got nothing but massive respect for Gwenno. She’s not a commercial artist. She’s an artist, and a successful one. She pushes herself and challenges herself every step of the way. She makes art. I’m properly in awe of her.’ Jeff Barrett

There can’t be too many record label bosses who would go with that notion, and see the bigger picture, the true worth of such a venture.

“Oh yeah, and what I’m really interested in with music, because of my background and probably my age as well, our musical experiences that impact us are partly in real life, partly from our community, and partly from records. And for me, music experience hasn’t just been about the records I listened to. It’s about the socialist choir my Mum was in, the hymns people have sung through the centuries that I’ve learned, it’s a live show experience, or it’s a folk song someone’s passing on. I’ve never seen recorded music as being the only musical outlet, but I’m very interested in how all that translates on to records.

“I see records as documentation of a time and place, like documentary making. I see albums as sound documenting. I’m always interested in that, and I think it’s an idea I’m trying to evolve into in terms of what gets drawn into that recorded music. For example, the reason I’m a huge fan of Enya is because she’s translated centuries of history of music into recorded sound. That’s where the progress is, and I find that concept really interesting.

“But it’s not just recording it as you would hear it. So much of music recording is to do with process. We don’t try and capture a recording of something that’s happened in the room – we’re interested in processing that music into something that’s recorded not just ‘as is’.

“Whereas folk music is documented as it’s sung – which is brilliant. I love all that – it’s about the music of a time and a place and how it’s processed into recorded sound, which is different to when you hear a choir singing ‘The Internationale’ on the street. It’s about different musical experiences.”

Was your childhood spent between South Wales and Cornwall?

“We didn’t have much money, growing up, so didn’t really go on holidays. I went to Cornwall a few times, but just to visit my parents’ friends who were Cornish speakers.

“I started Irish dancing when I was five – my Dad speaks Irish as well – and that was my opportunity to travel. I’d travel for competitions, so I’ve always travelled with something I’m doing. And I always quite liked that – you felt less of a tourist because you were going to do something that other people from that place were doing. That’s definitely had an influence on my motivations for travelling, and I feel that’s a driving factor for making music as well.”

On the first record, there was one song in Cornish, and on this one, there’s something of a Welsh call to arms on ‘NYCAW’, short for ‘Nid yw Cymru ar Werth (Wales is Not for Sale). Your Welsh roots are clearly important to you. Is this you and Rhys following Catatonia’s lead nearly a quarter of a century earlier on ‘International Velvet’?

“That was a slogan devised in the 1980s by the Welsh Language Society. There’s a tradition of artists using their slogans, taking another look at it. There was a band called Datblygu (Develop), led by David Edwards, who recently passed away, and they did a song called ‘Dimm Deddf, Dim Eiddo’, which is another slogan (No Act, No Property).

“The reason our song (‘NYCAW’) came together was because of a classic record label conversation. Jeff (Barrett) said to me, ‘I think you need another single’, and Rhys and I were so furious! We were like, ‘Our album is perfect, what are you talking about!’. We were so angry that we wrote and recorded it that weekend as a response, and were like, ‘If you want a single, we’ll give you a single about death to neoliberalism and capitalism, and the fact that if we’re thinking about any future country in the UK, it has to be a socialist one!’.

“So in a way, Jeff really contributed to that. We could have just gone, ‘You know, we’re not doing anymore,’ but we were so furious … The record in general is not a protest, but that’s definitely me getting back on my soapbox! And I can’t help that – that side is in me. I want to make observations, y’know!”

Conversation followed about afore-mentioned iconic Welsh language indie outfit, Datblygu – favourites of legendary DJ John Peel, the first Welsh language band he truly rated – and how I saw their first show outside Wales in 23 years in late 2016, an UnPeeled show at The Continental, Preston. And that led to Gwenno telling me about the April 2015 festival she helped put on in Cardiff, David and partner Patricia Morgan’s first show since 1993, a year ahead of the All Tomorrow Parties festival appearance in Prestatyn, North Wales, that preceded the pair’s Lancashire visit.  

“David thanked us after the gig, because he really enjoyed it. Because we’re artists and performers, we know what you need as an artist when you go and play – you need to have your soundcheck then you need people to leave you alone, stuff like that. You need that time, and it was so lovely to be the promoter and try and make that experience for Pat and David as easy as it possibly could be under the circumstances.

“I think they only played for 25 minutes, but it was brilliant! A band like Datblygu are so important to so many people. When you play shows, there’s an element of chaos, and particularly when they were touring during the ‘80s and ‘90s, their gigs were hard, as they are when you’re any sort of underground DIY artist, and that chaos has such an impact on your mental health and state of mind.

“But there they were on the main stage at the Wales Millennium Centre, where they should be! This was how elevated Datblygu have always been, and that’s where they should always be, in my mind. And the anticipation was incredible, as some people hadn’t seen them for 30 years. It was amazing, with people of all ages and all generations. And I’m just glad they had that run.”

Regarding your own indie-pop past, alongside your sister, Ani, in The Pipettes, you’ve clearly both moved on since, as have the rest of the band, but will there ever be another record or live shows?

“I dunno. Rose is doing stuff with Graham Coxon now, Becki’s a music teacher, in professional music development in Manchester, Bobby’s a writer … Everyone’s doing different things.

“It was such an interesting experience, and gave me a really good grounding in understanding Anglo-American culture, something I hadn’t been raised in. Everyone had such different tastes in the band, seven people where no one agreed on what they liked apart from maybe a good pop song. But it was also a reflection of a time and place, and I can’t imagine how you’d reimagine that for it to be progressive.

“And it’s about progress, isn’t it? You do things because they’re interesting. The Pipettes were interesting to me, and I was very curious about it. I was like, ‘This is fascinating, it’s so bold, so blatant, and I can’t believe the cheek of it!’.

“I’m a massive introvert, so it was like, ‘Oh my God!’. I think that’s why I struggled with it, because I wasn’t a natural entertainer. I always felt I was the miserable one and couldn’t quite be as fun as I should be. I just couldn’t do that.”

It’s interesting how you talk about your brief spell trying to understand Anglo-American culture, as if that’s some crazy sub-genre, minority path, or niche interest.

Open Window: Gwenno Saunders, letting more light into our lives. Photo: Claire Marie Bailey

“Yeah, totally! It was just curiosity! But I learned a lot about bands I didn’t know about, playing catch-up in my early 20s. There are brilliant elements, clearly, musically as well, in terms of that canon. But I think the older I get, I feel my roots become more fully formed.

“I live in Wales, and that’s been home for a long time. My world is very Celtic. It’s that perspective on the world, and the more I dig into it, the more I get out of it, and the more I see the connections, you know, even people like William Morris … it all ties in. I think it’s always been about an alternative to the way this island evolves, and what the soul of it is, and I think we’re all looking for alternatives, because the world’s gone a bit mad.”

True. And if nothing else, Word has it you increased the take-up in Cornish language exams. That’s something to be proud of, surely.

“Well, I always say this, it’s nothing more than the hard work of everyone that’s been teaching Cornish for the past few decades. I only started making these albums because I felt there was somebody there. I was responding to the energy of a community growing, not trying to represent it in any way.

“All of a sudden I could feel and see and hear there were other Cornish speakers around. And everything I do feeds off a community really. Musically and culturally, everything I do is grounded in that.”

Are your parents still doing their thing, creatively?

“Yeah, my Dad never stops. He’s writing poems every day. He’s constantly writing and publishing work. And my Mumn’s still going in the choir …”

Will that be the case with you in a couple of decades?

“Definitely, I think it’s the curiosity and it’s about the journey, following your nose, seeing where that takes you. Having the Cornish language led me to very unexpected places, and that’s exactly where I want to go. And that’s what life’s about – when you’re sat there at the end of it, you kind of want to go, ‘Well, that was fun, and slightly ridiculous!’.”

Having your son most have been another learning curve.

“Well, it’s been a big part of this album, because in our society motherhood is very … the thing that struck me when I became a mum was how unfair society was being run. My inspiration generally comes from my family and my roots and all that early years’ experience. It really does. I draw from it constantly, because I’m interested in how that impacts you as a human being in positive and negative ways, culturally or emotionally. And those first few years are beyond important.

“If that’s not right … it all stems from that. That was always part of my work, and I think Tresor was me trying to get a grip on who I am again, remembering that, because you give yourself up physically as well, for children, happily and wilfully, but coming back to yourself takes a very long time. It certainly did for me. It was so much about that, going, ’Oh, yeah, I remember you!’”

Sorry, I interrupted. You were about to mention your Mum’s path.

“Oh, she’s still singing in the choir, and they’re going over to Catalonia to commemorate the people from Wales that went over to fight in the Spanish Civil War. A few members of the choir and family members were over there, a lot of people from the South Wales valleys going over to fight the fascists.”

It seems rude when this LP’s yet to land, but what about the next one? Perhaps that could take a flavour of the International Brigade struggle, your own Homage to Catalonia, or maybe it could be steeped in Breton history, or signal further returns to the Cornish or Welsh languages?

“I don’t know. My interest is in conveying the spiritual element of the collective unconscious. It’s something I’ve started on, and I think musically I would love to try more. I started it with ‘Men an Toll’, and I’m aspiring to find the spiritual element in music, because I think that’s the part I respond to the most in music myself. But I’m not sure what that is yet.

“It’s a journey, and you follow your nose. I’m maybe just trying to learn new ways of doing things, and I’m always open to try things.”

Following last weekend’s Sea Change Festival appearance in Totnes, Devon, Gwenno is set for further festival sets at Port Talbot’s In It Together tomorrow (Friday, June 3rd), and Kidlington’s Kite Festival (Sunday, June 12th), before July record shop dates to officially launch the new LP at Manchester’s Piccadilly Records (Friday 1st), London’s Rough Trade East (evening, Saturday 2nd), Bristol’s Rough Trade (lunch, Sunday 3rd), and Brighton’s Resident Music (evening, Monday 4th).

Then comes September’s UK headline tour, alongside more festival dates, starting at Manchester’s Psych Festival at The Ritz (Saturday 3rd), then at Hebden Bridge’s Trades Club (Friday 16th), the Wide Eyed Festival at Leicester Academy (Saturday 17th), Brighton’s Komedia (Monday 19th), Shoreditch, London’s Village Underground (Tuesday 20th), Endelienta Stone Barn Arts Centre in St Endellion, Cornwall (Saturday 24th), Liverpool’s District (Wednesday 28th), The Hare & Hounds in Birmingham (Thursday 29th), and Neuadd Ogwen in Bethesda, Gwynedd (Friday 30th).

For all dates and more information, head here. To pre-order Tresor, try here. And for th elastest from Gwenno, visit her Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter pages.

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Shine on Mellow Moon – the Alfie Templeman interview

Posted on May 27, 2022 by writewyattuk
Rising Star: Alfie Templeman, four years on from his debut single, but still only 19. Photo: Lillie Eiger

It promises to be a memorable summer for rising indie pop star Alfie Templeman, this talented North Bedfordshire teen’s debut LP hitting the shops this weekend, with various in-store and live dates marking the occasion.

The impressive Mellow Moon lands today (Friday, May 27th) via Chess Club Records/AWAL, and after a few listens I reckon there’s enough there to suggest he’s on his way to the big time. But don’t think for one moment this likeable multi-instrumentalist and singer-songwriter is taking any of this for granted. What’s more, he comes over as nothing but down to earth and humble.

It was only early days listening to the LP when we spoke, but I told him its quirkier moments suggested he’s anything but a passing pop fad, despite a canny knack for writing winning melodies and commercial hooks.

“Ah, cool! Thank you! I appreciate that.”

There are plenty of neat moments en route. Do his songs tend to be fully formed at the construction stage? Or does he noodle away with ideas and see them grow?

“Oh, I’m demoing stuff all the time. That’s my way of writing songs, just putting it together.”

He was demoing songs as early as the age of 13, and this 19-year-old is unlikely to forget his roots. He’s said before that his Carlton, Bedfordshire background has influenced his work. In what way? Is he one for driving around getting ideas for songs, or going for walks, thinking, ‘There’s an idea!’?

“All the time. I go on a lot of walks, take my phone, and if I have any ideas I memo stuff in my head, literally just hum it.”

Many of us would struggle to get down those moments, which often materialise at inopportune moments, such as killer melodies or lyrics, battling to store them internally then get home and work on them. It’s easier these days with phone technology, but it’s no doubt still a perilous situation.

“Oh, of course. That’s so true. You always get little ideas and can’t memo them, frustratingly thinking, ‘That would have been perfect’.”

Well, hopefully, in those situations there’ll at least always be the next ones to come along.

“Yeah, fingers crossed!”

Alfie released his first single and EP in 2018, recording in his bedroom after school back then, leaving a formal education after his GCSEs the following year to pursue a career in music, with two more EPs following that year.

In 2019, he supported Sundara Karma at Brixton Academy, going on to tour with Sports Team the year after, early supporters including influential BBC Radio 1 DJ, Annie Mac, with Alfie soon featuring on the daytime playlists and receiving ‘hottest record’ accolades on that national station, as well as further BBC plays on Radio 2 and 6 Music, plus Radio X, Virgin (where he’s performed in session on Chris Evans’ Breakfast Show), Absolute, and Apple Music 1.

In fact, Alfie’s already clocked up more than 140 million streams worldwide, his stock rising further through supporting Chloe Moriondo in North America. But when he started work on his debut album in early 2020, like so many of us he could never have imagined the turbulent path that lay ahead, for him personally and the rest of the world. However, it seems he’s reached the other side, in style, saying, “It feels like I’m on a different planet. I’ve gone somewhere new and I’m discovering fire for the first time.”

He began the pandemic shielding due to a respiratory issue first identified in childhood. Feeling ‘very low’, he sought help and started taking antidepressants to attempt to deal with anxiety. And while he’d not spoken out about his mental health before, he felt that to ignore such a significant moment in his life, having finally sought help, would be hiding something of himself.

“I think people assume I’m this easy, outgoing person, but there’s actually a lot more layers to me, and this record shows that. Writing songs like ‘Broken’, ‘Take Some Time Away’ and ‘Mellow Moon’ were like therapy.

“It was me asking ‘What’s wrong with me?’ and ‘How am I going to get better?’ and just figuring things out in real time. I had therapy but there were still things unresolved in my mind. So I turned to music for the answers.”

Across Mellow Moon’s 14 tracks, he aimed to close his eyes and imagine another world, one where he’s more at ease, not distracted by life’s many challenges, embracing honesty and moving past the fear of failure.

“I’m being really open for the first time about where I’m at mentally. Overcoming that felt life changing.”

Along the way he called on regular collaborators Tom McFarland (Jungle), Justin Young (The Vaccines), Will Bloomfield, and Rob Milton, the LP largely inspired by modern influences like Steve Lacy, Khruangbin and Leon Bridges, as well as Alfie’s ‘constant cosmic guide’, Todd Rundgren.

Look Right: Alfie Templeman, set for a busy summer to mark the release of his debut LP. Photo: Lillie Eiger

And he sees the finished product, his ‘most complete work to date’, as both ‘an intimate diary entry and a communal call to arms’.

It’s certainly a feelgood LP, full of smile-on-the-face quirks and upbeat hooks, with plenty of twists and turns en route, opening track ‘A Western’ getting us off to a breakbeat-drenched baggy, dream-pop start, at the same time setting the tone for the radio-friendly fare that follows. By contrast, ‘You’re a Liar’ is more bass-heavy and a steady builder, but again it provides a soundtrack for summer, Alfie’s voice sounding soulful.

From there we have the more outright pop-funk of ‘Broken’, while ‘Folding Mountains’ and ‘3D Feelings’ remind us that he loves to noodle away on guitar but is never in your face, the latter number another surefire heatwave hit and catchy as feck, complete with a big anthemic chorus.

‘Candyfloss’ and ‘Best Feeling’ are also insanely singalongable, and we’re still only halfway through, the wondrous single, ‘Colour Me Blue’ picking up where ‘Do It’ kick-started side two, a nailed-on hit, surely.

As for ‘Galaxy’, that’s more Prince-like, the shadows lengthening somewhat, his added Isley Brothers-like guitar again somewhat subtle in the mix. And then comes the sumptuous ‘Living Today’, somewhere between ’70s soul and early ’80s Respond fare.

Meanwhile, ‘Take Some Time Away’ hints at a ’60s film soundtrack and maybe a little Lenny Kravitz at his early career-best. Again, it’s super-soulful, but this time bluesy, and as mellow as the moon in the title track that follows. And what a track that penultimate number is, leading us neatly into a more Pink Floyd-flecked dreamy finale, ‘Just Below the Above’. Splendid work all round. Hats off to Alfie.

With all that in mind, what was the first act he saw live, or the first record he heard that made him think this was what he wanted to do with his life? Only it seems that it all happened at an impressionable age for Alfie.

“The first band I really got into were Rush, when I was a kid. I just really liked that kind of music.”

That’s interesting. It would seem at first that might be several light years from what you’re doing.

“Yeah, definitely.”

Is that still your ‘kick off the shoes and relax’ music, away from the day job?

“I think so. I still listen to that kind of stuff … all the time.”

Was that musical taste down to your Dad’s influence?

“I think the first time I heard Rush was because his friend was playing them. That’s what got me into it.”

Are we talking ‘Spirit of Radio’ time?

“Hemispheres, man! That as well though – ‘Spirit of Radio’ is great.”

Are there specific artists you see and hear now and think that’s where you want to go next, providing that inspiration to propel yourself on?

Travelling Man: Alfie Templeman’s summer tour itinerary includes Down Under dates with The Wombats

“Yeah, I’ve been doing that with a lot of prog recently. Even Black Midi. I love listening to them. You never know what’s going to come next.”

Again, that doesn’t fit your label’s description of you as an ‘indie r&b’ artist, even though I feel that sums you up quite well. I’m more a ‘60s and ‘70s soul man, but there’s lots in that later field I enjoy, and for me there are winning elements of ‘80s and ‘90s soul meets electronica in your music. For instance, on ‘Leaving Today’, which might well be my favourite track on the album …

“Ah, cool, thank you!”

I get the impression it’s as if you felt, ‘Right, we’ve got the catchy, more radio-friendly singles out of the way, now the real me …’. You seem to stretch out more towards the back end of Mellow Moon. Am I anywhere near the truth?

“Yeah, mate, of course … for sure!”

Have I just blown your cover?

“Ha! There is a lot under the cover! And there are so many different songs – so many flavours going on – on this record, to be fair.”

Agreed, and maybe because of your voice, among the acts that sprang to mind for me were one you may not recall hearing, and clearly not first time around, The Questions, the early ‘80s band that Paul Weller signed for his Respond label in The Style Council days. And come to think of it, maybe you should try covering standout tracks like ‘Belief’ or ‘Tuesday Sunshine’.

“Ah, that’s interesting. I like The Style Council.”

I really like the title track, ‘Mellow Moon’, too.

“Thank you, that’s a highlight for me as well. That and ‘Just Below the Above’, the last song.”

I’m with you on that too. And is that right that you were surrounded by guitars, growing up?

“Yeah, a lot of guitars!”

And you learned to play upside down, as your Dad was a left-hander?

“Yeah. I had to get used to playing the other way around!”

As a leftie myself, I get that. I’m also reminded of past interviewee, guitarist Steve White, of The Bootleg Beatles, who to claim Paul McCartney’s role in that tribute act, dedicated himself to learning left-handed bass in Macca’s honour, but told me he loved to unwind playing right-handed guitar when not on tour. That kind of blew my mind.

“Wow, no way! That’s so interesting. So he actually got into a method of playing it backwards?”

Absolutely. That’s a hell of a discipline, isn’t it?

“Oh yeah!”

Talking of discipline, apparently Alfie can play 11 instruments, at the last count (recently taking up the flute), and contributes heavily with production and co-production duties on Mellow Moon, that full-length release coming after 2021 debut mini-LP Forever Isn’t Long Enough. All that and those boyish good looks too, like a young Neil Morrissey. And self-taught on everything but the drums, I gather. He’s clearly dedicated to the cause.

“Yeah, I mean, I was obsessed growing up with like, Frank Zappa, Todd Rundgren, and stuff. I listened to their guitar playing very closely, learning that way.”

I understand you were recording and demoing as early as 13.

“Yeah … although some of that stuff was pretty bad!”

Have you kept everything?

“I actually have. I’ve tried to, at least. There is a lot of it that I’ve still got.”

That could make for at least a bonus disc on a box-set one day.

“Oh, yeah. One day!”

Did your dad play in public before you?

“No, never! I don’t think he’s ever actually done that.”

Well, he clearly inspired Alfie, who had his own guitar by the time he was eight. His sister is also a talented musician, playing trumpet and piano. I’m guessing he grew up in a house where all that was positively encouraged.

“My Mum played a lot of music in the house, but the main influence really was my Dad for music.”

There have been several recommendations so far from sections of the industry and pop music press. For instance, The Sunday Times’ Culture section calling him, ‘one to watch closely’, and Vogue saying he was ‘a soon to be international rising star’. He was also included on a 2021 BBC Sound Of poll and subsequently the BBC’s Brit List initiative, while making further tip lists with Radio X, Vevo, Amazon, and MTV. But again, he’s taking that with a pinch of salt.

“Yeah, that’s pretty cool … but it’s just someone’s opinion at the end of the day, so it doesn’t really bother me.”

You’re clearly keeping your head on your shoulders.

“Well, it is just someone’s opinion. It’s the same as any review.”

I certainly get the impression you’re in a good place right now. You’ve mentioned personal battles with anxiety and depression before. Is it your music, your family, your friends, or all those things that see you through when the going’s tough?

“Yeah, just all of that. Family, friends, music … and relaxing. Everything like that is very therapeutic.”

It must be a real thrill to have the album on its way. Reaching that next landmark stage must count for something.

“Yeah, it’s a big one. It’s scary, but also really exciting.”

You’ve had some prestigious support slots so far. Has that proved a learning curve, picking up tips from those you’ve played with?

“Oh, definitely, just in pacing yourself on tour and taking care of your mental health, things like that. You learn so much every time you play a gig or go somewhere. There’s always something to take from.”

He’s already completed a UK headline tour, including sell-outs in Manchester, Bristol, Brighton, playing iconic venues like Shepherd’s Bush Empire, West London, along the way. That must have been a thrill as well.

“Oh, it was so surreal doing that. That was the biggest one … ever.”

There have been positive reactions in mainland Europe too, notably France, Germany, Holland, and Belgium. Do you tend to get nervous at times like that? Or does everything kick in after a couple of songs?

“I was pretty nervous! You definitely zone out sometimes though. But I feel every musician gets that.”

I probably shouldn’t say this to you, but I recall a chat with Glenn Tilbrook in 2013 when he was talking about being on stage one night, suddenly distracted, wondering if he’d left the grill on after making cheese on toast before leaving home, losing himself mid-song, during ‘Up the Junction’, of all tracks.

“Ha! Oh, my God, yeah, that is such an on-stage thought! You can’t focus properly, then you forget your lyrics, and … oh!”

You’ve certainly got a busy summer ahead, with in-store shows, festival dates, BBC Radio 1’s Big Weekend, and all that. Then there are those seven Australian dates supporting The Wombats (which seems rather apt, at least geographically speaking). A huge arena tour – that’s a big step again.

“Yeah, that’s gonna be … I mean, everything’s kicking off really, isn’t it? Crazy!”

Will that be your first time Down Under?

“The very first time! I’m really excited to go over there, have some fun.”

It seems like you’re building a bit of a reputation there, not least via plenty of airplay on Government-owned national radio station Triple J.

“Yeah. That’s like a dream in itself! I love that.”

And what do we get from you, live? Will you be fronting a full band?

“Yeah, it’s just us having fun on stage, basically. Amazing, just me and my mates.”

Is that the case with the LP? I mean, you seem to be capable of playing more or less everything we hear.

“That’s just me, but when we play live, it’s like, ‘Here you go. Here’s the song, do it however you want to.”

All in all, it’s not a bad life for a young North Beds lad, is it?

“I know, I’m so lucky!”

I think back to careers office visits at school, wondering what I could do, career-wise, perhaps not fully realising I could choose my own creative path at that stage. But you seem to have known where you felt you were headed from a young age. Did you always have that focus?

“It was always there. Then getting signed when I was 15 was like, yep, that’s kind of it, I’m a musician. I never really looked back … and I’m lucky to have that.”

Well, whatever happens next, you’ve made a cracking debut album, and I wish you well from here.”

“I really appreciate that. Thank you.”

But whatever you do, try not to dwell too much on what you may have left under the grill during a performance.

“Ha! I’ll try to avoid it!”

Tour Time: Alfie Templeman, all set to head your way over the coming months. Photo: Lillie Eiger

On the back of festival sets earlier this month at Liverpool’s Sound City Festival, Reading’s Are You Listening? and Brighton’s The Great Escape, Alfie Templeman is set for further May dates at: 26th – Banquet Records, London (in-store); 28th – HMV (in-store) and Dot To Dot, Bristol; 29th – Radio 1’s Big Weekend, Coventry, and Dot To Dot, Nottingham; 30th – Phase 1, Liverpool (in-store); and 31st – Crash Records, Leeds (signing only). Then in June he features at: 1st – Rough Trade East, London (instore); 2nd – Pie & Vinyl, Portsmouth (instore), and Vinilo Records, Southampton (instore); and 4th – Live At Leeds In The Park, Leeds. 
 
Dates follow supporting The Wombats in Australia, also in June, at: 9th – AEC Theatre, Adelaide; 10th – John Cain Arena, Melbourne; 11th – Hordern Pavilion, Sydney; 14th – Oxford Art Factory, Sydney; 15th – UC Refectory, Canberra; 16th – Howler, Melbourne; and 17th – Riverstage, Brisbane.
 
In July, Alfie moves on to: 2nd – Barn On The Farm, Gloucester; 6th – Mad Cool Festival, Madrid; 9th – Depot In The Castle Festival, Cardiff; 10th – TRNSMT, Glasgow; 16th – Community Festival, London; 23rd – Tramlines Festival, Sheffield; 24th – Truck Festival, Steventon; 28th – Kendal Calling Festival, Lowther Park, Lake District; 30th – Y Not Festival, Pikehall, Derbyshire. Then in August, Alfie reaches: 6th – Bingley Weekender, Bradford; 12th – Sziget Festival, Budapest; 14th – 110 Above Festival, Atherstone; 26th – Big Festival, The Cotswolds; and 28th -Victorious Festival, Southsea.

For more details about those dates and Alfie Templeman’s debut LP, Mellow Moon, out this Friday, May 27th, visit his website. You can also follow him via Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

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Still Crazy after all these years – on the Long, Long Road with Arthur Brown

Posted on May 19, 2022 by writewyattuk
Fire Cracker: Arthur Brown, no intention of quitting the Crazy World quite yet. Photo: Harvey Waller

“I am the God of Hellfire, and I bring you …”

If ever a first line of a song grabbed your attention, there was one.

Frightening kids since 1968, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown only had that one hit, ‘Fire’, but certainly made an impact, even if they took eight weeks to set the charts alight, in a manner of speaking.

They ultimately reached No.1 in late August ’68, briefly knocking Tommy James and the Shondells’ ‘Mony Mony’ off the summit before the same record returned to the top, ‘Fire’ also reaching No.2 on the US Billboard Hot 100 and No.1 in Canada that October, and the top-10 in Austria, France, Germany, Ireland, and the Netherlands.

That was it, hit-wise, even if that iconic track from 1968 album ‘The Crazy World of Arthur Brown’ still maintains its mesmerising power with audiences and peers today.

A genuine one-hit wonder, yes, but that self-titled debut LP, produced by Kit Lambert with input from The Who’s Pete Townshend, also reached No.2 in the UK, only kept off the top by Small Faces’ sublime Ogden’s Nut Gone Flake then Simon and Garfunkel’s era-defining Bookends.

Their trademark song was co-written with Vincent Crane, who played Hammond organ in Arthur’s band and later featured with Atomic Rooster, later contributing to Dexy’s Midnight Runners’ 1985 cult LP, Don’t Stand Me Down, dying way too young, aged just 45.

However, half a century and a bit later, shock rock pioneer Arthur is still very much with us, his new album, Long Long Road, out on Friday, June 24, which just happens to mark his 80th birthday.

What’s more, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown are set to promote their unique take on psychedelic blues rock at four special UK shows – including elements of dance, poetry and visuals – to help celebrate that landmark.

It seems like perfect timing, but those shows were rescheduled twice due to the pandemic, the iconic band-leader now eager to get out there, promising a full evening of ‘psychedelic individuality, ingenuity and madness’.

Clearly, he hasn’t changed his ways too dramatically, his new immersive multimedia show, ‘The Human Perspective’, featuring ‘great musicians, stunning visuals, iconic dance and sonic adventure’, this self-proclaimed ‘God of Hellfire’ showing us why he’s recognised as a true innovator of progressive rock and a significant influence on heavy metal.

Musically, his show involves a retrospective of a long, long career, featuring a heady mix of psychedelia, prog, blues and rock. And as he put it, “The Human Perspective concept is the exploration of our inner selves while trying to navigate the external world. The God of Hellfire meets The God of Purefire, if you will”.

As for the concept, it’s something Arthur reckons he’s been incubating for decades.

“This is the live show I always wanted to perform with Kingdom Come back in the 1970s, but the technology at the time meant it wasn’t possible. But now I’m able to fully realise my vision for the show. It’s something I’ve been looking forward to for a long time.”

The first of those take place next Thursday, May 26 at The Playhouse, Whitley Bay, followed by a visit to Waterside Arts Centre in Sale on Friday, May 27, with two more Saturday shows from there, at Leeds’ City Varieties on June 11, and London’s Bush Hall, Shepherd’s Bush, on June 25.

On the back of his 1968 worldwide million-selling smash hit, Arthur’s shared the bill with the likes of The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention, The Doors, the afore-mentioned Small Faces, and Joe Cocker.

And there are elements of both Cocker and Small Faces on the title track of the new record, an epic, poignant ballad that could as easily have come our way in the late ‘60s as now.

The same goes for many more numbers on Long Long Road, to the point where I can picture Keith Emerson attacking keyboards with knives on opening track, ‘Gas Tanks’, a Look at Yourself era Uriah Heep-like romp.

The LP then takes something of a Screaming Jay Hawkins meets Johnny Cash – another artist whose late career saw him afforded fresh critical acclaim – turn with ‘Coffin Confession’, before the organ revs up again and the brass arrives for the swirlingly soulful, late Beatles-esque, heavy metal thunder of ‘Going Down’, sort of namesake James Brown possessed by AB disciple Bruce Dickinson, with no guarantee of sleep ’til … well, Shepherd’s Bush at the very least.

Crazy Dancer: Arthur Brown, swapping standing stones for four UK dates this summer. Photo: Harvey Waller

‘Once I Had Illusions’, split into two parts, is more Nick Cave, another track including atmospheric prog keyboard from multi-instrumentalist/long-time collaborator/co-producer/arranger, mixer and engineer Rik Patten, who adds everything bar Arthur’s seasoned vocals, guitar and piano.

‘I Like Games’ has a John Lee Hooker fused with Led Zeppelin stomping dirty blues vibe, while ‘Shining Brightness’ conjures up The Doors and Tom Waits. As for ‘The Blues and Messing Around’, that’s a 12-bar blues number steeped with wild guitar licks, underpinning organ, tinkling piano, and Arthur’s life-well-lived vocals.

Then comes the majestic title song, before we’re away with ‘Once I Had Illusions (Pt.2)’, this time with added Daniel Lanois-ish production qualities, David Gilmour-like six-string dashes, lots of those touches that made Arthur who he is, and echoing plenty of those artists who ploughed on where he left off (I could hear Tom Jones giving that finale a great working-over, for example).

I can’t argue with the official line, this being a ‘wild and vibrant affair, crammed with rich musical textures … quintessentially Arthur Brown’ and an album that can ‘easily be construed as the apex and summary of a fascinating career that has spanned no fewer than seven decades’.
 
As long since became his way, Arthur shifts from prog and soul to blues rock, this veteran performer ‘summoning his full vocal range with a mature mastery that comes only with the experience of a lifetime’.  

Whitby-born Arthur attended grammar school in Leeds before university studies in London and Reading, forming his first band in that Berkshire town and involved with others in the capital before a spell in Paris working on his theatrical skills.

He returned in late 1966, featuring with R&B/soul/ska outfit The Ramong Sound before they became The Foundations, Arthur soon finding his own calling alongside Vincent Crane, Drachen Theaker (drums) and Nick Greenwood (bass).

That Crazy World of Arthur Brown quartet quickly built a reputation for outlandish performances, Arthur’s flaming headgear becoming his signature gimmick, not always health and safety-friendly.

As it turned out, personnel changes followed and only two albums were made, their shelved 1969 follow-up not seeing the light of day until 1988, Arthur going on – after further projects – to form an increasingly ‘out there’ Arthur Brown’s Kingdom Come, making three influential LPs, even dabbling in space rock.

But their multimedia approach to performance proved some way ahead of its time and arguably too much for mainstream audiences, several more unlikely projects following.  

There was always that sense of the theatrical with Arthur, so it wasn’t too much of a surprise when Ken Russell cast him in Pete Townshend’s rock opera, Tommy, his dramatic vocals kicking in where Eric Clapton left off in a frankly disturbing miracle-working communion scene.

By the early ‘80s Arthur was based in Austin, Texas, with a master’s degree in counselling, soon adding painting and carpentry to his CV.

Returning to England in 1996, many more meanders, recorded product and performances followed, working with afore-mentioned Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour and former Iron Maiden frontman Bruce Dickinson, plus Kula Shaker, Die Krupps, and fellow space rock pioneers Hawkwind en route, to name just a few. 

In later years he’d find himself sampled by The Prodigy and cited as a major influence on artists as diverse as Alice Cooper, David Bowie, Kiss, and George Clinton.

Cooper reckoned, “Without Arthur Brown there would be no Alice Cooper”, while Elton John added, “Now there’s a man who was ahead of his time”, and Bruce Dickinson said, “Arthur Brown was a big influence of mine … Arthur Brown has the voice of death.”

His work was also recognised as recently as 2019’s Prog Awards, Arthur receiving the Visionary Artist Award, other accolades including Classic Rock magazine’s Showman Award, all part of his latter-years renaissance.   

As for his wild stage persona, flamboyant theatrical performances, and charismatic multi-octave voice, he’s long been appreciated far and wide by musicians, writers and fans, far beyond the vast shadow cast by that huge hit.

And on Long Long Road, Arthur proves he remains as authentic, challenging, creative and as compelling as he was at his career’s fiery beginning. What’s more, as the team behind him insist, ‘This record is not a swansong, but the thrilling beginning of the final phase of an utterly singular career’. 

Head Honcho: Arthur Brown, coming to a town near you fairly soon, it would seem. Photo: Harvey Waller

Long Long Road is available as a box set, including 48-page hardcover 2CD artbook, gatefold 180g orange marble vinyl LP, bonus 7″ vinyl single, art prints, and various other signed products. It’s also available on black 180g vinyl LP, transparent red 180g vinyl LP, and as a digipak CD. For more details and The Crazy World of Arthur Brown’s The Human Perspective 2022 live show tickets, try www.glasswerk.co.uk or www.thegodofhellfire.com.

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Right on track with The Goa Express – in conversation with James Douglas Clarke

Posted on May 12, 2022 by writewyattuk
Garage Band: The Goa Express on location, ready for a busy 2022 tour itinerary. Photo: Louis Butler

Rising indie guitar band The Goa Express are the sort of outfit that give me hope for the future of live music.

The Manchester-based Burnley and Todmorden five-piece’s most recent single, ‘Everybody in the UK’, their ‘call-to-arms for togetherness in a world that increasingly looks to drive us apart’, was just the latest statement piece from a group that have been close friends since teen years, harbouring collective dreams of a rock’n’roll career, and determined to enjoy the ride.

That latest 45 came on the heels of the equally impressive ‘Be My Friend’ and ‘Second Time’ (the latter mixed by Ride’s Mark Gardener), all three songs making BBC 6 Music’s A-list, having already proven live favourites at numerous busy headline shows of late, those last two singles issued by happening London indie label Ra-Ra Rok Records.

They’ve also raised their profile through memorable support slots, including on the road stints with The Magic Gang and Shame; played to 1,500 or so punters at Latitude, their first mainstream festival performance; and put in the hours at a Zeitgeist club night at Manchester’s YES.

They’ve clearly come a long way since 2016 debut single, ‘Reincarnation of the Lizard Queen’, and 2017’s surf/psych-punk driven follow-up ‘Goa’/’Kiss Me’. But they retain the ‘play wherever we can’ spirit of their first two live shows – one involving three songs blasted out of a mate’s garage, the next above a vintage shop, the floor nearly caving in – their original maxim of ‘when there’s fuck all, you make do with what you’ve got’ still holding true.

Built around brothers James Douglas Clarke (guitar, vocals) and Joe Clarke (keyboards), Joey Stein (lead guitar), Naham Muzaffar (bass) and Sam Launder (drums, percussion), you only need seek out online footage of their live shows to see what they’re about. And it’s an intense arrangement, by accounts, but works on stage and in the studio, and while there have been occasional bust-ups, they reckon it all aadds to the burning chemistry.

Their stock rose somewhat in 2019 on the back of interest from Steve Lamacq, who gave them their first national radio session for BBC 6 Music in a BBC Introducing slot recorded at Abbey Road’s Gatehouse and Front Room studios. And it’s clear from talking to James that the band – who cite Spacemen 3, The Brian Jonestown Massacre, French existentialism and beat literature as key influences  – are having the time of their lives right now.

As their press biog points out, we’re talking ‘proud Northerners with a DIY foundation that aren’t afraid to look into the often-dim future and see themselves shining brightly in it, unforgiving and unpretentious’. And James came over as modest rather than bullish to me, not taking anything for granted, thankful for the breaks they’ve had so far.

They’ve also garnered interest from BBC Radio 1’s Jack Saunders, who had them on his ‘Next Wave’ segment. As for the tracks that have impressed me so far, I’ll point you towards the afore-mentioned singles and similarly essential B-sides, ‘The Day’ and ‘Overpass, first.

‘The Day’, a surging Teardrop Explodes meets Velvet Underground keyboard-flecked track that pulls out all the stops, was recorded in Sheffield with the Fat White Family’s Nathan Saoudi at his band’s studio, before they headed to another next door to make ‘Be My Friend’ with Ross Orton (Arctic Monkeys, Jarvis Cocker, The Fall). And the latter I see as their true debut 45, described as ‘a cheeky, snarling pop song, holding undertones of raw cynicism laden with psychedelic sunshine’, a high-octane belter reminding me of the fire of personal ‘80s indie favourites like Close Lobsters and The Mighty Lemon Drops.

As for ‘Overpass’, I’m getting Magazine, Wire and Jonathan Richman meet The Fall and Inspiral Carpets. And the fact that those latter two recorded singles with James’ near-namesake John Cooper Clarke has me hopeful that the lauded punk poet might be persuaded to join them for a couple of honed verses of his own on an alternative take one day. They describe that track as ‘a step away from those who’re always trying to get close to you. An avoidance of those that are always hanging round. A shout-out to individuality and an acceptance of rejection’. And like several of their tracks, it’s intense but also a singalong fans’ fave.

As for it’s a-side, ‘Second Time’ – a song that ‘unpicks the imperfections of youth, not dwelling on mistakes, letting them run their course’ – that’s where I started with James, telling him that’s my favourite, in awe at its infectious verve and passion. It’s a song you want to play time and again, capable of forcing the sun out from behind the clouds.

And then I added praise for more baggy-influenced follow-up, ‘Everybody in the UK’. Think Supergrass meet The Stone Roses. Another winner, and anthemic with it.

“Yeah, we hope so, and hope that as the summer months come rolling along, people will be singing it back to us.”

I could see that happening at Kendal Calling or any of the other outdoor events you have lined up. Have you played that South Lakes festival before?

“No, although it’s not too far from us. I don’t think any of us have even been there, but we all love the Lake District. It’s absolutely beautiful. We spent loads of time there as kids walking. And I know quite a few people from that end of the country. I don’t know what to expect from that, but we’re hoping for some nice scenery and sunny days.”

The latest single’s promo video was filmed not so far from Kendal, the band seen throwing pebbles by the water’s edge and also watching a stock car racing event.

“That was in Carnforth. That was great. Luckily, the rain held off. When we arrived, it was dead windy and it was absolutely bucketing it down, us thinking, ‘Not another music video where we’re stuck in the wind and the rain, all our hair getting messed around!’. But the weather turned the corner for us.”

Warton Wonders: The Goa Express at Warton Stock Car Club on a video shoot. Photo: Louis Butler

Well, either way, it goes with your Northern territory.

“Absolutely. You never know what you’re going to get!”

You say the key message of that single is togetherness. And we all need a bit of that right now, don’t we?

“Yeah, togetherness, but also – with our more abrupt nature – if you’re not together, don’t stick around. If you’re not on the right side, do one!”

Well said, that man. You and your bandmates have stuck by each other for a long time though.

“Absolutely. We all met in year eight at school. In fact, the others met in year seven, when we were 13 … now we’re 24. So it’s been a good portion of our lives, pretty much half our lives.”

A certain Joe Clarke plays keyboards for the band. Are you the big brother?

“Erm … I think I have to adopt that role sometimes. But I’m not the sternest in the band … and I’m definitely not the most organised. I’m not the most ‘on it’ sort of person. But yeah, I guess so. I guess I maybe adopt that role sometimes.”

Are you more the frontman?

“Yeah, I do the singing and all that sort of stuff … and make sure everyone’s doing their job!”

You’ve had plenty of good support of late, in influential circles. Not least with Mark Gardener, of Ride fame, helping out. Is that a band you were into?

“Yeah, we all were. We all quite like that sort of shoe-gazey stuff. Yeah. We all sort of bonded over that when we were quite young, so that was pretty surreal. He had a nice set-up down in Oxford. I remember walking through the fields in the heat of summertime to record it. A nice few days. He’s got some mad guitars, some quite cool guitars. We stayed in some tiny, weird Airbnb farmhouse that had a farm shop and all that.”

At this point, I mentioned being at a one-day festival at Upton Court Park, Slough, not far from my old patch, in 1991, Ride topping the bill, with support from Curve, The Mock Turtles, Slowdive, 1,000 Yard Stare, and Ratcat, the headlinersd at the height of their success back then. And with that, James let on that he was hoping the band could get in to see them play Manchester Academy when they played there (that was in late April).

Steve Lamacq has also got behind the band, playing The Goa Express on his BBC 6 Music show.

“He has, and we did a session for him. We recorded ‘Second Time’ at Abbey Road, and he picked up on us. He’s been sound and he’s mates with a friend of ours, Paul. And there are other familiar faces around that sphere where we haven’t been introduced yet, but I’m sure we will as time goes on.”

Recording at Abbey Road must have been a big moment.

“Yeah, that was good fun. We recorded it, then were sat on it for a while, before Mark mixed it. And we enjoyed having a bit of time away, taking everything with open arms.”

You’ve also built up quite a live following.

“We have. The live shows are always dead fun to play. Some go really well. We’re on tour for a full month soon, then we’ve got the summer seasons and festivals to look forward to. So towards the end of the tour, we should be as close to being perfect as humanly possible.”

I hear you got a good turnout at Yes in Manchester a while ago.

“Yeah, we did the ZeitFest, and for some absurd reason played that festival three times on the same day, with our first show at noon, a second at six, then our final show at three in the morning. The second was the best, the third a bit of a write-off, but it took some balls to go and do it … and we had them.”

That’s true. No one really wants that slot, surely.

“No one wants to do three shows in the same day. That was the main problem!”

Think of it as your Hamburg years, all part of your apprenticeship towards the big time.

“Exactly. We were burnt out after that. Oh, my God!”

Is that right you’ve got Burnley roots? Is that where you all went to school?

“Yeah, spot on. Me and Joe, my brother, are from Todmorden, a small town just next to Burnley. And we all went to school in Burnley. That’s how we met everyone else.”

I’ve told people this before, but recall driving through your old neck of the woods en route to cover a football match once, playing Revolver on my car stereo, and it seemed like everyone I saw along that stretch of the road, and all the scenery I experienced as I came through neighbouring Portsmouth, fitted those psychedelic moments on that amazing LP so well, the imagery of ‘I’m Only Sleeping’ seemingly perfectly written for my surroundings.

“It is quite a weird little place. It’s hard through the winter, but as soon as the sky and the valley opens up, it’s absolutely stunning. But the winter months are tough.”

You were perhaps far too young first time around to have been influenced by some of the bands I hear in you when they first broke through. I also hear the likes of Fontaines DC, but then there are the ‘80s and ‘90s indie influences, with at least one of those bands from your part of the country, Colne’s Milltown Brothers.

“Ah yeah, and Naham (Muzaffar, bass guitar), his family live in Colne.”

You certainly have the potential to be the next biggest thing from that area.

“Yeah … if we ever make it properly.”

That’s not in doubt as far as I can tell … not as if I’m always right about such things, mind. But you’re Manchester-based now though.

“Yeah, basically we all moved to university in Manchester, which was quite remarkable considering we were doing all the band stuff on the side. I can’t believe all of us still managed to keep the two things going. And we’ve lived all over town. I’ve lived in Moss Side, I’ve lived in Hulme and Longsight, I’ve lived in Ancoats, lived around Oxford Road, lived all over Manchester for the last five years.”

When you play Manchester’s White Hotel this month, that will be the closest to a homecoming then.

“It’s definitely a bit of a homecoming show. It’s pretty wild playing in Manchester, as you’d imagine. All our friends are out all the time and just want to go partying soon as you put your guitar down, so yeah, we’ll see. We’ll try and keep it a little bit sensible until after the show, then we’ll let our hair down a little!”

You mentioned university studies. Did you all get through?

Hillside Assignation: The Goa Express, coming to a town near you. Photo: Louis Butler

“We did, yeah. We all got through and all did quite well, sort of commendable for everyone to have done that. We’ve had our moments of stress, but also decided we were going to do this from a pretty young age, and we still love doing it.”

Was there a band you saw around then that made you think this was what you wanted to do with your life?

“Yeah, probably the Brian Jonestown Massacre. We all went and saw them when we were like … I don’t even know, we were definitely way under-age for going out in Manchester, going to parties all night! We were probably 16. We got the bus up, and it was just one of them coincidental moments where every single one of us had a ticket. We were already all into music, but after seeing them we were like, ‘This is what we should do!’.”

Did that sharpen the focus?

“Yeah, and to this day we still love that band. I think they’re on tour soon, and when they play in Manchester, I assume we’re all gonna be there again.”

It sounds like your own early gigs were special, like that first one in a mate’s garage and another above a vintage shop.

“Yeah, and we have a similar mentality now. We’ll play anywhere! But being in Burnley, unfortunately – for whatever reason – it was sort of limited. I can’t think of any actual venues in Burnley (we could play) when we were at college. It was a case of, ‘Who’s got space? Who’s got a room? Who’s got a garage? If you need something doing at the weekend, we’ll come and play for you.’”

At that point, James is interrupted by what I assumed was either an air-raid siren or a peacock. What on earth was that?

“Seagulls, that, man! I’m not in Manchester at the moment. I’m on Brighton Marina, looking out at loads of boats.”

He was visiting his Dad on the south coast, enjoying time away before the tour, ready to head back north the next day, the band’s Great Escape festival appearance in the East Sussex resort still some way off at the time. And what’s next for the band? Is there an LP on the way? There have been a few singles so far. Are you building up to that?

Trackside Rendezvous: The Goa Express at Warton Stock Car Club, Carnforth. Photo: Louis Butler

“I think in terms of material, there’s definitely an album there. We just keep writing, non-stop, taking away surplus stuff that doesn’t sort of make the cut, filling the gaps. We just keep going. We’re all big grafters, and we’ll carry on grafting, playing shows, writing, doing things on our own, and hopefully the time will come.”

Are there day-jobs? Or are you giving everything for this?

“There aren’t really any day jobs. That makes it dead tough, but we’ve just got to try and keep our heads above water for the next few months. We’ve put a lot of time into this, and it’s not really just about the band. We all hang out, go and do stuff together. It’s more about the sort of life that comes with it. So yeah, much as we could do with some money, none of us really want to work. We want to do this.”

I get the feeling you’ll get there, and soon. What would the dream be? Three years down the line, where do you reckon you could be? And is there a band manifesto?

“There’s never been a manifesto. We embrace everything with open arms. I think the one thing we all wanted to do, fundamentally, when we started, was go travelling, see new places and meet new people. It’s never really been like a goal – I don’t like using that term – but I guess we’d all like to play in America at some point, see some weird landscapes and weird people!”

We mentioned influences, talking about the Brian Jonestown Massacre, and you’ve mentioned Spaceman 3 before, while I hear Bizarro-era Wedding Present guitars here and there, but also the crossover indie pop of bands like the afore-mentioned Milltown Brothers, and Supergrass too. I guess the bottom line is that you seem to know how to write some cracking hooks and great songs.

“Yeah, we just try and write things that are pretty catchy. Then as soon as they get stuck in your head, you’re screwed, aren’t you!”

The Goa Express’ latest tour details are shown above, with further dates lined up this summer on June 10th at Syd For Solen Festival, Copenhagen; July 23rd at Truck Festival, Oxford; July 24th at Tramlines Festival, Sheffield; and July 31st at Kendal Calling Festival, Lowther Park. For more details try the band’s Bandcamp, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter pages.

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Seeking out parallel worlds and channeling rocket science with Simon and the Astronauts – the Simon Wells interview

Posted on May 8, 2022 by writewyattuk

A collaborative project between two UK musicians and a producer initially put in touch by an acclaimed singer-songwriter has led to a sparkling new LP recorded with a California-based singer, one spending plenty of time on my sound system at present.

I knew nothing about Simon and the Astronauts until a passing mention from former frontman of The Bible turned acclaimed solo artist and master songwriter Boo Hewerdine in a WriteWyattUK interview last April.

After that was published online, Simon Wells got in touch, and he recently tracked me down afresh to enthuse – quite rightly – about his band’s latest record, the neatly-crafted Simon and the Astronauts, featuring Rachel Haden.

It was Boo who originally put Simon in touch with his son, fellow songwriter Ben Hewerdine, and producer/musician Chris Pepper, the resultant trio initially more of a songwriting/recording collective than a proper band. But maybe that’s changed with the arrival of Los Angeles-based Rachel Haden.

The original threepiece had already involved various guest collaborators, their 2019 debut EP The Entertainment Suite quickly followed by a first self-titled album that year, a record also spawning viral TikTok hit ‘I’m Just A Cat’.

But as they set about recording their second full-length album, they felt they were missing something crucial, and after some soul-searching contacted Rachel with what they thought was a shot-in-the-dark request to a musician and singer they all hugely admired.

A founding member of That Dog and The Haden Triplets, and a respected solo artist – the daughter of jazz legend Charlie Haden – who’d also worked with Jimmy Eat World, Weezer, Anais Mitchell and Todd Rundgren, among others, reacted positively to their pitch, the lads subsequently setting about writing new songs with Rachel in mind.

Working remotely between Chris’ studio in Cambridge and Rachel in LA, they started out on what became a winning collection of 12 new songs, ambitious and sonically-varied, the resultant LP effortlessly shifting from the classic alt-rock of opening track ‘I Have A Name’ via the pop charm of tracks like ‘The Kiss That Landed’ and the crushing guitars and cinematic atmospherics of ‘10 League Boots’, towards under-stated, pensive closing number, ‘Lost In London’, a Simon Wells co-write with Boo Hewerdine.

The new record also involves Swedish multi-instrumentalist Gustaf Ljunggren, input from LA’s Sea Grass Studios and Spirit Kid Sound, and the blessing of Rivers Cuomo for an interpolation of Weezer’s ‘Surf Wax America’.

And as the grounded but ambitious Astronauts put it, ‘The album is a tribute to the possibilities of the global sharing of ideas, each track bouncing between countries and continents, heading to its next destination richer and more developed. Simon and The Astronauts is an unlikely cast of characters hailing from a wide variety of musical backgrounds and traditions – and all the better for it.’

There’s also the possibility of an imminent tour, but for now the emphasis is on the finished vinyl product that recently arrived at their Airlock imprint label office, much to Simon’s pride when we spoke.

As he put it on the accompanying press release, ‘The album has always been a pleasure for me. They can be a mystery that can start with the name of the band, a track on the radio or just the artwork. Dark Side of the Moon is an obvious example for me. Or Kid A, or Universal Human by Weezer. For this recording I wanted to capture the album mystery and for everyone involved to be part of the ride.

“It had to be about playing side A and turning the vinyl to hear the rest of the album and finish the journey / story. This all begins with the songwriting process, through to the mixing and mastering. People always make the difference and the joy of hearing Rachel sing with such emotion made the songs complete.”

While the Astronauts see their spiritual home – at least the grounded version – as Cambridge, it’s clear from talking to Simon, that there’s a London accent there. So where are his roots?

“Ah mate, it’d take me 20 odd years to tell you that! I was born in Somerset, ended up in London, I’ve been here 20-odd years, but I lived in Tokyo for three years, I’ve lived all over the Midlands, and my family originally are from Matlock and Yorkshire.”

So there you hasve it. And whereabouts in London are you now?

“Enfield, North London.”

How did Ben (who also goes out under the name The Entertainment) and dad, Boo, reach your orbit (so to speak)?

“I met Boo in a pub, and we just talked about music and songwriting. He said, ‘I’ve got a weekend of songwriting, come along’.

“For me, he’s one of the best singer-songwriters in the country. And over the years, I’ve got to know him, being on residential weeks with him and people like Darden Smith. And through all that, I met Ben one weekend. Boo said, ‘Let’s try and do one song together, see if it works out’. We met Chris Pepper, this recording engineer in Cambridge, Boo suggesting we just do one song at a time, as live as possible. We’d literally write something in the morning, then record it in the afternoon.

“We didn’t really know if it would work out as a project. And Boo can do that, drive that along. Originally, that project was going to be called Jason and the Argonauts, but I thought I could put a spin on that. When they said, ‘Your name’s got to be on it,’ we became Simon and the Astronauts, because of my love for sci-fi and cartoons and comic books, taking that imagery. And the first album has a booklet where everyone’s got a job title, and what they do on the spaceship.”

Simon tells me this second album is actually the third set of recordings they’ve put together. But, I asked (trying to gauge how old he is, for one thing), was he too young to go back to The Bible (the band, that is, not the Good Book … that would make him really old)?

“I came to the Bible quite late. But I’ve been listening to music for a ridiculous amount of time.”

Turns out he’s 58, but they’re not the sort of band who put that information out there. In fact, even before I realised that I kind of expected it, seeing their promo videos so far. They’re quite happy to have Rachel out front, but I get the feeling the rest are more comfortable hiding behind fictional aliases, more Gorillaz-like – cartoon-led, if you like.

Maybe that’s not a bad comparison, with this a group very much about song-craft, first and foremost, capable of more commercial moments but with plenty of elements of leftfield pop. And while talking cartoon alter-egos, I also mentioned garage-rock outfit Michael & the Angelos, the Liverpool band with a link to Echo and the Bunnymen guitar hero Will Sergeant, who put their own Hanna Barbera style stories online.

“I like that sort of stuff. And there was that element of, ‘Do we remain anonymous?’. People have bugged us for press photos, and yet we’re more interested in the music and writing than anything else. That’s where the focus of everything we’ve done is, and we take a lot more time over that than anything else. I did look into doing some animation, looking at the videos for the last Gorillaz album. But God knows how much money they spend on those.”

One thing that’s changed in recent years is how bands have realised – with improving computer technology, and so on – they don’t all have to be in the same room to write and record, with several winning examples of acts with musicians in more than one country or region, getting together just for tours or studio time. And that remote working world took a huge step forward during the pandemic, with lockdowns and so on.

“It did, but the weird thing is that Rachel was actually meant to be coming over for the Cambridge Folk Festival, so we booked two weeks with her in the summer, to fit in with her European tour, to do all the vocals. We had it all lined up, all the tracks written by that stage. Then of course, no one could travel.

“I like being in the same room with people, but the balance of it all changed. Chris drove it in terms of producing the tracks, sending us mixes or ideas to build on. We then sent those tracks over to Los Angeles for Rachel to do the vocals, soon as she could get into a recording studio. There was a spell when Los Angeles was shut down, of course.”

I’m guessing you’ve properly met since, face to face.

“No! But we’ve talked about doing some dates this year. We’re trying to make it happen. The wild card is that Gustaf (Ljunggren) lives in Sweden, and I’ve been working with him now for two years, yet I’ve never met him! But if we toured, he would do the tour. He’s a multi-instrumentalist, and could fill in the gaps we need.”

There are a lot of layers on these records, the songwriting and musicianship never in doubt. And we cross a fair few genres. For instance, opening track ‘I Have a Name’ carries a heavy metal/ grunge feel as well as something more radio-friendly. Dare I say, even a bit of Bryan Adams’ ‘Run to You’ or Blue Oyster Cult.

Then we’re into ‘The Kiss That Landed’, with its winning ‘70s radio vibe, somewhere between Boo Hewerdine’s Swimming in Mercury period and something more likely to feature in the higher reaches of the mainstream charts, The Feeling springing to mind. Also, maybe someone can tell me why that repeated ‘my friend’ line reminds me of wondrous Irish outfit The Thrills. That’s a sure-fire pop hit for me … at least in the days when that meant something.

“Yeah, it’s so hard. We spoke to people about what should be the singles, and it’s really quite weird. We recorded about 20-odd tracks until Chris and me said, ‘We’ve got to put an end to this!’. Originally, we agreed to do 10 or 11 tracks. I came up with a list of 11, Chris came up with his own list of 11, and 10 of them were the same. We had one difference. That’s how we got the 12 tracks. Then we spent a lot of time sequencing.

“There are also these NASA recordings on there, a few mixed in there, such as on ‘The Kiss That Landed’ and at the end. As for that first track, for us it was like Nirvana, whereas ‘The Kiss That Landed’ is more like me doing a ‘50s or ‘60s Hollywood song for a film.”

Strangely enough, there was another influence I was trying to place, then I looked down the tracklist and saw song three – perhaps my LP highlight after repeated listens – was called ‘Squeeze’, as if you were reading my thoughts. And of course, there’s another link, Boo having worked closely with Chris Difford. In fact, I see some of his lyrical bite and song-craft in a few songs.

“Well, he’s the man in a lot of ways. A very clever writer. I think if someone asked me, I’d have to say Elvis Costello. The way he writes … But Chris Difford is fantastic, so thank you for the compliment! I don’t know if he’s a hero as such, but I really admire the way he writes.”

On ‘Squeeze’, there’s even a ‘Strawberry Fields Forever’ Mellotron-like moment on the keys (be that down to Ben or Chris), albeit maybe more Dukes of Stratosphear psychedelia than Beatles.

“Ah, The Dukes of Stratosphear! That first album of theirs, I think it’s just incredible. Andy Partridge is a genius. I saw an interview with Steve Wilson recently, and he thought XTC were The Beatles of their generation. In their later work, I think that’s what they achieved. Their last three albums are just fantastic.”

With Costello, Difford and Glenn Tilbrook, Partridge and Colin Moulding, I get the feeling they could have written even more hits if they wanted to. But perhaps that pop world didn’t entice them at times. As for the Astronauts, with this LP, I hear key elements of you tapping into that crossover market. For instance, side two opener ‘Oxygen’ has an ELO thing going on, another space-influenced outfit.

We again come back to Boo, particularly on a record like Swimming in Mercury, hardly surprising considering that its title track tribute to David Bowie was co-written with Ben, mind.

“Yes, and I think that’s one of the better things Boo’s done in the last five to 10 years. The record Boo did with his band as a four-piece is my favourite recording of his, most probably, in that period. I went to see them play live three times, and that, potentially, is the basis of what our band would be if we toured. Chris Pepper was the drummer on that album and on that tour.”

I hear a little Kirsty MacColl in Rachel’s delivery on ‘All My Days’, while ‘Pay It Back’ is another song that deserves daytime national radio airplay (crossover folk meets Lightning Seeds, perhaps, its lyric inspired by Charlie Haden), before the crowdsurfing grungetronic surge of the mighty ’10 League Boots’ brings side one to a climax, the mighty ‘Oxygen’ and ‘Parallel World’ carrying on where we left off as we flip over.

For all its new wave charm, ‘Chess’ also has the air of a 21st century take on Janis Joplin’s take on ‘Me and Bobby McGee’, while the rousing, ultimately soaring ‘Athena’ is another epic hit in the making – the orchestration suggesting Kate Rusby should tackle this with a full brass band (perhaps that’s Simon’s Yorkshire roots coming through). I could so hear that bursting out of the radio to brighten your day, the clouds parting. Could even be a Christmas smash.

Thre’s still vinyl space though for the heartfelt ‘I Do’, Rachel between Sinead O’Connor and Delores O’Riordan. She at least deserves the O’ prefix. And then we’re away on ‘Lost in London’, its subtle piano accompaniment suggesting Bacharach and David meets McCartney, the Abbey Road imagery poignant, as is also the killer verse,

‘Now I am at Marble Arch, I know that they’ve all been here.

The Thin Duke, The Pirates, the Pistols, The Damned, Strummer, and Ray and Dave.’

It’s a hymn to better days, perhaps, neatly told, never over-egged, and while it’s over before you know it, maybe this record marks just the start of this working relationship. And seeing as Karen Carpenter comes to mind here, perhaps ‘it’s only just begun’. In short, they sound like a proper band rather than a trio hitched up with a guest vocalist. Rachel’s proved a great match. Whose idea was it to approach her?

“It was Chris’ idea. He’s a big Weezer fan and liked her vocal on one of their tracks. The weird thing is that I knew That Dog before. There’s a track on their first album about an imaginary friend, ‘She Looks at Me’. That was a song I remembered, the first time I heard her sing, having been aware of her dad. I thought that was very much a Beatles-y sort of thing. And because of all that, it just felt like a good fit.

“She did one vocal for us, on ‘Chess’, and we absolutely loved it. Then she did backing vocals for ‘The Kiss That Landed’, and we said, ‘Would you sing the lead on it?’ She did, and added some improvisation. All that stuff she sort of does naturally, and that’s very much what she brings.”

Maybe that’s where I’m getting the ‘70s radio feel. Rachel has the potential commercial appeal of someone like Rumer, giving that extra pop edge. That Karen Carpenter feel.

Incidentally, the LP is available on vinyl through a deal with an American label, and can also be snapped up digitally, while limited-edition CDs could be up for sale when the band play live.

And seeing as I mentioned The Beatles, Simon added that there are further nods to the Fabs with the LP artwork, one I missed until closer inspection, regarding not only Abbey Road but also ‘our interpretation of the Help sleeve, and A Hard Day’s Night‘. I’ll leave you to check that out for yourself on purchasing the finished product though.

But what happens next time around? Will that involve Rachel again? Have you thought that far ahead?

“We have, yeah. And in an ideal world, we’d all be in the same country, and we’d do maybe a week or two recording, then a week of rehearsal, then some shows. The idea would be to play most of this album, although ‘Athena’ would be really hard to play live, because it’s got so much orchestration. But we’d try and do that and some older stuff, and we’d cover some of Rachel’s earlier material, and Ben’s earlier material. We’ve enough between us to play for a couple of hours.”

For more about Simon and the Astronauts and how to get hold of the album on vinyl or digitally, head to their social media hang-outs on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And for a link back to my interview with Boo Hewerdine – and my first mention of the band – from April 2021, head here.

All design copyright Simply Marvellous Music, with illustrations by Chris Baldie.

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Pip Blom / San Lorenz – Preston, The Ferret

Posted on May 3, 2022 by writewyattuk
Live Presence: Pip Blom charm the locals at The Ferret, Preston (Photo: Malcolm Wyatt)

We waited a long time for this, but it was definitely worth the delay, Amsterdam visitors Pip Blom on fine form at The Ferret in Preston, Lancashire, more than seven months after they were first scheduled to visit.

This four-piece Dutch outfit have increasingly filled larger Manchester venues on North-West trips, but on this occasion instead gave a performance at a more intimate Preston music hub fighting for survival, post Covid-19 lockdowns, part of a National Lottery-funded Revive Live tour originally arranged for last September, a Music Venue Trust initiative supporting grassroots venues.

This date had long since sold out, but illness first time around meant Pip and co. (lead singer / guitarist Pip Blom joined in the band of the same name by brother Tender Blom on guitar/backing vocals, Darek Mercks on bass, and Gini Cameron on drums) had to rearrange first for mid-November, then, when that failed to happen, switched again to late April.

Amid all that, the band moved a couple more rungs up the ladder on the back of second LP, Welcome Break, this latest UK trip also including their biggest headline show yet, at Islington Assembly Hall, North London, a winning Sounds From the Other City festival appearance in Salford, a further delayed Revive Live show at Independent, Sunderland, various in-store LP launch events and more evening shows, including dates at Liverpool’s Jacaranda Club (Wednesday, May 4th), Barrelhouse, Totnes (Thursday, May 5th), and festival sets at Focus Wales, Wrexham (Friday, May 6th) and Are You Listening?, Reading (Saturday, May 7th).

There were also prestigious European supports with Franz Ferdinand recently, with Bloc Party next, and just last night we had another entertaining session for long-time supporter Marc Riley’s BBC 6 Music show (Tuesday, May 3rd).

Last Thursday, The Ferret was certainly packed, but your scribe just about managed to get a Guinness in and carefully hoist it, using the limited space he had in front of his boat race while catching the back end of an inspired set by San Lorenz, Pete Harrison’s Merseyside four-piece another outfit with a highly-expressive female drummer, Bex Denton.

Pop Craft: San Lorenz, formerly known as SPQR, out and about plenty in 2022, all the way from Merseyside

I certainly need to check them out again on the strength of this performance, the band recently changing name from SPQR to distance themselves from any white nationalist feckwits adopting that moniker. Instead, they’ve name-checking a fictional island in Kurt Vonnegut’s Cat’s Cradle, their Ferret set suggesting layered, intelligent pop craft on the respective edges of indie and electronica, somewhere between alt-J, Squeeze, XTC and Wire for my money (although that’s not a right lot of cash, to be fair).

The fact that I only saw a few songs will stop me from writing much more though, at least until next time, but their online product suggests they’re here to stay and are well worth checking out.

Then came the main attraction, offering a heady mix of tracks from 2019 debut LP Boat and afore-mentioned latest platter Welcome Break, a few great singles thrown in for good measure.

It’s been a strange time for the band, the latest album getting its CD and digital release in early October, but the vinyl version only just out. In fact, it was there on the merch stand, Pip and Tender’s mum tending shop, so to speak, while dad Erwin, of Peel favourites Eton Crop (fellow UK circuit regulars in days of yore) was in the throng of it all watching the band, his shock of white rock’n’roll quiff reminding me somewhat of late Jam manager John Weller. And while Erwin didn’t take his cue and step on stage to introduce the ‘best fucking band in the world’, he looked proud all the same … rightly so.

Set-wise, the headliners ordered anchors aweigh with Boat’s side two openers ‘Tinfoil’ and ‘Ruby’, stepping up the knot rate from brooding, intense and grungesome beginnings, Gini pumping away in steerage, the band’s road fitness there for all to savour, this punter allowing himself his first smile at around the minute-mark of song two as the chorus swept in, memories of early Catatonia rekindled.

From there, a giveaway wonky riff swept us into 2018 single ‘Come Home’ before a chance to breathe on the first of five tracks from the new record, the more dreamy Sundays-like open expanses of ‘Faces’ leading to the finely-crafted ‘12’, Pip’s assertion that they’d waited nine months to set their eyes on the vinyl version prompting Darek to chip in that it had been like waiting for a baby to arrive.

Selling Out: The A-Board outside The Ferret marks Pip Blom’s sold-out visit (Photo: Malcolm Wyatt)

Rather aptly, with that in mind, we got 2017 lo-fi wonder singles ‘Babies Are a Lie’ and ‘I Think I’m in Love’ next, the latter’s insistent punk rock surge never failing to hit the spot.

The foot came back off the gas a little for ‘Holiday’ from the latest LP, perhaps more Wolf Alice than the rest of the set, but I guess this was more about pacing themselves towards a big finish, 2016’s rough and raw ‘Hours’ providing another bridge before the frenetic ‘School’ upped the ante – Courtney Barnett springing to mind – and along with the similarly wondrous ‘Easy’ showed they can still write those more off-kilter tracks we love.

By then, Tender was bare-chested, this quartet still giving everything, working towards a big finish, driving 2018 single ‘Pussycat’ (a more ballsy take on The Police’s ‘Spirits in the Material World’, maybe) followed by the sheer ecstasy of crowd-pleasing recent 45, ‘Keep It Together’ and inevitable show-stopper ‘Daddy Issues’, the might of this outfit and their songwriting flair again proven without doubt. And for the record, the last minute of the latter – the Blom siblings’ duelling vocals and false fade, then that big finish – never fails to grab by the tail and swing you around, regardless of available venue space.

On this occasion, there was no encore, but what more could we ask? Besides, I defy you to see Pip Blom and not leave with smiles on your faces. So good, every time. Here’s to a swift return to these shores. 

For last year’s interview with Pip, marking the release of Welcome Break, head here. And for our first chat, from 2019, head here. You can also check out this live review from Band on the Wall, Manchester from that year.

Washed Out: Pip, Darek, Gini and Tender sort out their laundry ahead of their latest Marc Riley session (Photo: Pip Blom)

For all the latest from Pip Blom, including live shows, recorded product and other merchandise, try their official website, and follow the band via Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And for more about San Lorenz, heads to their Soundcloud page and their Facebook page.

And for all the latest from The Ferret in Preston, Lancashire, including its ongoing fight for survival, head to its website and Facebook page.

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All the way from Detroit, destined for success – celebrating Duke Fakir’s I’ll Be There: My Life with The Four Tops

Posted on April 28, 2022 by writewyattuk

Picture the scene. It’s the second Sunday of November, 1966, barely three months after England’s World Cup triumph, The Four Tops riding high in the UK charts, their fourth hit on this side of the Atlantic rather fittingly retaining the top spot, ‘Reach Out I’ll Be There’ at No.1 for the second of a three-week run, their On Top LP set to start its 23-week top-40 run the following weekend.

That evening, Levi Stubbs, Abdul ‘Duke’ Fakir, Lawrence Payton and Renaldo ‘Obie’ Benson played two sets at the Saville Theatre in London’s West End, Cliff Bennett and the Rebel Rousers the main support act for an event promoted by Beatles manager Brian Epstein. They’d be back for a proper UK tour two months later, including two sold-out shows at the Royal Albert Hall, the Tops’ love affair with the UK and Europe well under way, as Duke Fakir recalls in his forthcoming autobiography.

‘The Tops had always aimed high, wanting to entertain in the top venues in the country, not imagining that one day we’d be in demand in Europe too. When Brian Epstein foretold that he’d make us as popular as the boys from Liverpool, who were an international phenomenon, we gladly put ourselves in his hands. Brian was a young man, just a little older than we were, a nice Jewish guy who was easy to talk to, free-spirited but also a savvy businessman, an expert in marketing. His first step was bringing us over to the UK for a promotional tour with various bookings and lots of television appearances. On the last day of the tour, we performed at a small London theatre, the Saville, an eight-or-nine-hundred-seater. It wasn’t concert-sized, more like the size of our usual nightclub venues. Brian sold out every ticket in the house and invited key media people and artists. Backstage before we went on, he reiterated his promise: “This could be great for you. You do the best show you can do, and I guarantee you will be front-page news.”

‘The people just went crazy, and when Brian came backstage to congratulate us, he was almost crying. After that he brought us back for a whole tour of the UK, which was a complete sell-out. And in 1967 that was big, really big. To cap it off he gave us an amazing going-away party at his three-storey brownstone on Chapel Street. At the party were The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, The Who, Small Faces, and every other group in the country who was on the charts or on their way up. It was a party to behold.

‘The first floor was for meeting and greeting, saying hello and thank you, and drinking a little bit, which we all did. Paul McCartney asked about ‘It’s the Same Old Song’, which he was a big fan of. He told us he thought it was unique, it had a very particular sound to it, and he loved the rhythm. He said something like, “That’s some bad mother-fucking music!”. All of the artists were very nice and open, and it felt a lot like any artistic community in America where musicians gravitate to each other and shake hands and talk music. The women at the party ran up and kissed us and told us how much they loved the Tops. The guys said how much they loved the Motown sound. The thing everyone was most impressed with was how all that music could ‘come out of just one building’. It was astonishing to them.

‘Moving upstairs at the party, on the second floor, folks were smoking hash and weed. Everybody started gravitating up there. England had always been a little bit more open about getting high. Judging by today’s standards it may seem like it was a big drug scene. But in the ‘60s and ‘70s it was all part of the culture, the way people partied and had mind-altering experiences. It wasn’t like we were drug addicts. It was all about spreading kindness, joy, love and happiness. I think I was having too much fun because I never made it up to the third floor of the party. I had the driver take me home.”

Not quite sure what was happening on that third floor, and records suggest there was also a fourth floor at that swish Belgravia address, one Duke was clearly not party to, so to speak. Either way, by the end of August, Brian was gone, Duke describing his accidental overdose of sleeping pills as ‘a huge, tragic loss’. He added, ‘Later we learned that he and (Motown boss) Berry (Gordy) had been in discussions about joining forces and putting together some kind of business deal that never came to pass.’

But this nation’s love affair with the Tops continued, with promotional support initially from Brian’s agency, his belief in them proven right, their positive relationship with the UK continuing to this day, Duke now the sole survivor from that classic line-up.

One of the interviewing highlights of the last dozen years for this website was my first opportunity to speak to Duke, exactly six years ago, reminiscing about so many moments involving his past, present and pre-Tops years, celebrating one of the finest vocal bands of all time (with a link to that interview here). What’s more, a few months later I got to speak to Otis Williams, last surviving ever-present of The Temptations (with a link to that interview here).

For a lad won over by ‘60s soul in the early ‘80s, buying my first Four Tops and Temptations compilations on vinyl two decades after those early hits, it was a big moment, Duke by then on the road with three younger Tops, including original bandmate Lawrence’s son Larry, aka Roquel Payton, as was Otis with the modern take on The Temptations. And still they tour, together in fact, with plans to return later to the UK later this year, Duke and Otis – 86 and 80 years young respectively – remaining very much at the centre of each outfit.

As for that autobiography, as Duke puts it in the foreword of I’ll Be There: My Life with The Four Tops, told with Detroit-raised TV and film writer, producer, playwright and poet Kathleen McGhee-Anderson: ‘Most singing groups didn’t stay together for a lifetime, but The Four Tops did. Not until Lawrence Payton, Obie Benson and Levi Stubbs sang their last notes did we change our line-up. Now I’m the last Top left alive to tell our story and I’ve asked myself, ‘why me?’ and ‘what kept us together for so long?’.

‘In my view, most of it was out of our hands. Something bigger was at play from the very beginning. In the middle of the 20th century worlds were colliding, times were changing, and people were ready for a message of love and togetherness – and they could get that from music.

Four Midable: The Four Tops in more recent times, with Duke Fakir pictured right

‘The Four Tops were a part of that and maybe because of who we were – a band of brothers who stuck together, known for our melodious harmonies – we were ones to sing it.’

It’s a remarkable tale, not just about defining hit singles such as their afore-mentioned sole UK No.1 – among 11 top-10 singles here up to 1988’s ‘Loco in Acapulco’, and five top-10 LPs – but also of four bandmates who became tighter than brothers, touching on Duke’s marital ups and downs, struggles against drink and drugs, soured investment deals, over-riding religious faith, and the loss of those soul brothers, all told with honesty, humour and humility.

At its heart he draws on complicated relationships with his devout Christian mother, Rubyleon, and Muslim father, Nazim, plus the grandmother he credits with installing within his strong work ethic, and second wife Piper, ‘the love of my life’.

Religion plays a huge part throughout, but so does Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City where East India (Bangladesh) born Nazim settled after spells in London and Canada, a street singer and sitar maker who became a cook and chef before heading to his adopted home’s car factories, marrying a Georgia-born church choir director who later became a minister.

Abdul was the fourth of six children, his grandfather having set up the African Methodist Episcopal Church in the racially mixed North End of town, the church to which he would later devote himself, inspired by Piper to give up the hedonistic party lifestyle.

Duke, as he was known from a young age, was around seven when his parents separated, eight decades later remaining keen to advocate the peace and love message of each of their faiths, spirituality manifesting itself at various key events in his life, adamant regarding certain ‘special forces watching over me’.

Write Legend: The Four Tops’ Duke Fakir puts pen to paper, all these years on

Within, Duke and Kathleen paint a vivid picture of Detroit from the ‘40s to the ‘60s as he found his way towards his destiny, telling of a city where music culture rang out from assembly lines, shops and churches, ‘with a doo-wop group on every corner and talent shows every week of the year’.

At 13 he was blown away on seeing Jackie Wilson’s cousin, future bandmate Levi Stubbs, then 11, guesting with the Lucky Millinder Big Band, the pair later thrust together – as Pershing High School pupils – during a spell with a street gang they fell in with and were soon eager to distance themselves from, determined to make it their own way, seeking out a far more positive destiny.

Their first singing engagement was out west in Colorado, that particular quartet undone by an off-key fourth member, a learning experience that saw them vow to seek out a proper fit next time. And they soon met their fellow Four Aims (as they were known then), a wonderful moment of happenstance seeing Obi and Lawrence join them to perform at an invitation-only hometown graduation party in 1954, the chemistry and four-part harmonies there from the start, on a night involving Four Freshmen, Ray Charles and Orioles covers.

Lawrence’s instinctive arrangements quickly made an impact, each member bringing different qualities to the set-up, their first show proper following at a competition at the Warfield Theater, the biggest amateur show in town, subsequent interest leading to increasing numbers of bookings, far and wide.

On one occasion, their confidence took a knock on sharing a bill with James Brown and His Famous Flames in Atlanta, shocked by an outfit they knew nothing of before, stalling their own top-of-the-bill performance as long as they could that night, letting the crowd come back down to earth somewhat, Levi eventually suggesting, ‘We can’t out-funk him, we can’t out-dance him, we can’t out-holler him, but we can out-sing this mother-fucker, so we just going to go up there and sing!’. And sing they did, raising their game to new heights, on what proved to be another winning live appearance.

A first summer season at Daddy Bragg’s club in Idlewild, Michigan further raised their stock, Duke taking a particular interest in the business side that would serve him well over the years. And they also ended up winning over four of the dancing girls, a third of those liaisons ending in marriage, Duke hitching Inez, his first child following.

In time came their deal with the legendary Chess Records, leading to that name change on the Chicago label’s insistence, to avoid confusion with country act the Ames Brothers.

There were plenty more turns in the road, not least their unanimous decision to turn down a move to Berry Gordy’s fledgling Motown label back in their home city, concentrating on their R&B circuit labours, more prestigious bookings following, including various ‘top-of-the-line nightclubs out west’, inching closer to big-time venues in Las Vegas and Los Angeles.

As the ‘50s made way for the ‘60s, they recorded for Colombia then New York’s Riverside Records. Meanwhile, Berry Gordy’s firm continued to grow, the Tops in the audience at the Apollo Theatre in Harlem when the Motown Revue hit the town, Duke and co. marvelling at The Marvelettes, Martha and the Vandellas, Mary Wells and Marvin Gaye, wishing they were part of that bill but still retaining faith in their own destiny. But when a televised appearance on The Tonight Show in New York was caught back home in Detroit by Berry and his director of A&R, William ‘Mickey’ Stevenson, the latter accordingly reached out (I can use that particular turn of phrase in this case) and within weeks they were signing a deal at Hitsville, West Grand Boulevard, a few blocks down from General Motors’ HQ.

Their first Motown sessions, in 1963, led to an album of jazz standards, but Breaking Through would not be released for more than 35 years, Berry and Mickey already having other ideas, introducing them to in-house songwriters Eddy and David Holland and Lamont Dozier. And while the wages were modest at that stage, their studio education proved second to none, that first hit just around the corner, the Holland-Dozier-Holland penned ‘Baby I Need Your Loving’.

Their mighty rise followed, but Duke’s marriage was on the rocks, label-mates The Supremes’ Mary Wilson waiting in the wings, that romance cut short in an attempt to resuscitate his family unit for the sake of his children.

Soon, there was that first transatlantic trip, word spreading worldwide, but while things would never quite be the same beyond 1967, their take on ‘Walk Away Renee’ cracked the UK top-10 as the new year arrived, March ’68 single ‘If I Were a Carpenter’ also a success but proving to be their last big hit of the decade.

Changes were afoot, the landscape shifting, no better illustrated than by Duke’s inside story of how Marvin Gaye’s classic What’s Going On album came about, against the backdrop of the Civil Rights movement, escalation of the Vietnam War and ensuing protests and marches, picket lines, police brutality and overt racism, Duke and Obie on hand with Marvin and his brother Frankie, just back from ‘Nam, at the birth of the title song.

For Duke, those hometown riots of 1967 brought back memories of 1943’s racial tensions fuelled by the KKK, overcrowded housing and political suppression on Detroit’s East side. But while Motown took what followed as its cue to up and leave for Southern California, the Tops stayed put for now.

That sense of loyalty and brotherhood comes up time and again in this tale. While The Temptations, for instance, underwent personnel changes, and Diana Ross left The Supremes, Tops frontman Levi remained loyal to his bandmates as overtures were made by Gordy to take that solo path, seeing an opportunity for four hit acts where there were two. But while Levi said no, in a sense the writing was on the wall, their faces no longer fitting, leaving Motown in 1972.

There were still the occasional hits over the next quarter-century or so, and Duke has plenty more to tell, such as the story of the twist of fate (or faith, perhaps) that somehow saw them avoid the ill-fated Pan Am flight 103 just before Christmas 1988, following a festive Top of the Pops recording session. Then came 1990’s induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at the Waldorf Astoria, New York, marking a staggering 45 Billboard Hot 100 hits since 1964, including 24 top-40s and seven top-10s, the quartet introduced by Stevie Wonder.

Soon enough, Duke had swapped cocaine and weed in Vegas for a more pious hometown existence, Piper having introduced him to the church that just happened to be the one his grandfather set up 50 years before, now at its new address.  

In 1997 they lost Lawrence, aged 59, the other originals continuing until Levi bowed out in 2000 after a stroke, more changes following Obie’s death in 2005, Levi passing away three years later.

Stage Presence: Duke Fakir, right, with The Four Tops at Glasgow’s SEC Armadillo, 2002 (Photo: Mirrorpix)

Duke carried on though, making it his mission to properly say goodbye and thank you to audiences on behalf of his soul brothers, a lifetime achievement Grammy in 2009 seen as the icing on the cake, 55 years after those first Four Aims engagements.

And he’s not looking to throw the towel in yet, Duke now behind a musical telling the Four Tops story, I’ll Be There set to open in Detroit later this year, while the current four-piece are set to join forces with fellow Motown legends The Temptations – Otis Williams among them – for their latest UK arena tour later this year.

Whatever happens next, we’ll always have those great records to savour. Before I started this piece, I revisited, online, the Tops’ spellbinding televised live show from Paris in 1967, their take on ‘I Can’t Help Myself’ on that occasion just as thrilling today as in the year I was born, the two drummers doing their level best to keep up. And the moment I post this, I’ll blast out ‘Bernadette’ on the record deck, savouring that heart-searing moment, around 2 minutes 39 seconds in, where the band cut away and Levi issues that emotionally charged call to the lady in question. Then, as I’m talking killer percussion, I’ll follow that with the super-charged ‘You Keep Running Away’, a favourite from my 45s box, and that very track Macca raved about way back then, ‘The Same Old Song’.

And now, not so far from treasured copies of Eddie and Brian Holland’s Come and Get These Memories: The Genius of Holland-Dozier-Holland and Gerri Hirshey’s Nowhere to Run, I have Duke’s own version of events to reach out for.

I’ll Be There: My Life with The Four Tops by Duke Fakir with Kathleen McGhee-Anderson, is published by Omnibus Press on Thursday, May 5th, pre-orders on offer including limited editions hand-signed by Duke. For more details, head here.

Sweet Memories: The Four Tops celebrate 21 years together in the mid-’70s (Photo: Mirrorpix)

The Four Tops and The Temptations’ delayed UK arena dates are now set to happen this autumn, with late-‘70s soul-disco favourites Odyssey as special guests, calling at Manchester’s AO Arena (Friday, September 30th), Leeds’ First Direct Arena (Saturday, October 1st), Liverpool’s M&S Bank Arena (Sunday, October 2nd), Southend’s Cliffs Pavilion (Wednesday, October 5th), Nottingham’s Motorpoint Arena (Thursday, October 6th), Bournemouth’s International Centre (Friday, October 7th), Birmingham’s Utilita Arena (Sunday, October 9th), Cardiff’s Motorpoint Arena (Monday, October 10th), and London’s O2 Arena (Tuesday, October 11th), with tickets available via 24-hour hotline number, 0844 888 9991, www.ticketline.co.uk, or direct from the venues.

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Salutations, serenades, savoured situations – Phil Odgers on Cush, The Men They Couldn’t Hang, and Ghosts of Rock’n’Roll

Posted on April 22, 2022 by writewyattuk
Double Act: Swill and Cush co-fronted the band for getting on for 40 years (Photo: Peter Stevens)

Phil Odgers was working with bandmate Paul Simmonds over the bank holiday weekend, the pair back on track after a difficult year following the devastating loss of The Men They Couldn’t Hang co-frontman Stefan Cush to a heart attack in February 2021.

Phil, best known to fans as Swill, and Paul had an Easter ‘songwriting get-together’, my interviewee telling me they were working on tracks for the band’s next album, the band deciding late last year that carrying on was the right thing to do.

Before we spoke, I re-immersed myself in Phil’s latest solo LP, Ghosts of Rock’n’Roll, a cracking record that deserves all the critical praise garnered upon it so far … and more.

And I was reminded through an online interview with Phil from six months ago (by Dave Jennings for Louder Than War, linked below) marking that release, that while he remains busy with his solo venture, the band were honouring prior bookings, in what turned out a cathartic experience for fans and group alike.

“Yeah, obviously with Cush, it was a total shock, and right in the middle of lockdown. The gigs we ended up doing at the end of last year and beginning of this year had been moved around so many times – postponed, rescheduled, and rescheduled again and again – and we never thought in our wildest imaginations that Cush wouldn’t be here to do them.

“We had to think about what we were going to do, and thought we’d honour the commitments we had, doing those gigs as a way of … well, for a lot of people there, it was their first time out at a gig in two years, so people hadn’t even had a chance to get together, and this was a chance for everyone to do that.

“We always talk a lot anyway, but if we could talk about things over the mic. and people could talk to us at the bar or wherever … and certainly by the second or third gig it was quite clear to us that the right thing to do would be to continue.”

It’s always been a loyal fanbase, and Phil mentioned how it’s expanded, 38 years beyond the release of ‘The Green Fields of France’, their debut single on Elvis Costello’s Imp Records, and the first of their three John Peel sessions.

“With those people that come to see us, not only have a lot of those grown up with the band, there from the beginning, but there are also people coming who are bringing the next generation, and their children aren’t children anymore.

“So many times, I hear stories now of younger people who got into us because their parents would listen in the car. They kind of had no choice. In those days, you didn’t have Bluetooth, and kids couldn’t overtake car stereos with their phones. Ha!”

I guess those rearranged dates gave you all a chance to properly grieve for Cush.

“Totally. And, especially with the first few gigs, there would be times when pretty much all of us at one point or another during the gig would be extremely emotional. Also, I’m the one who’s got a microphone in front of me, and there were bits where you had to just compose yourself and bring yourself together. There’s no point you just standing there, blubbing!”

I still struggle to comprehend Cush is no longer with us, let alone the band. But I’m pleased I got to see them all again in Preston in late 2018 (with my review here). And the Cock-a-Hoop LP was a great one for him to go out on, not least the songs he contributed, including the wondrous ‘Salutations’ and ‘Pone’.

And Cush and Swill were always a great double act as frontmen, forever covering for each other.

“I think I said, last time we spoke, that for Cush and myself, because we’d done it for so long, it was almost a case of knowing what the other was thinking, being able to step in immediately if the other one … I think sometimes I knew before Cush if he was going to make a mistake or get distracted, and vice versa, after such a long time working together like that, singing together, sharing all those experiences.

“Also, there’s the sound, with those two vocals, so what we did there and what we plan on doing going forward is that everyone’s singing, so I’m pretty much singing everything, with one or two songs where others are, but we’re all singing the choruses.

“And it’s surprising. Ricky (McGuire), the bass player, had never sung anything with the band, so we were quite shocked what a nice voice he’s got!”

Clearly, it’s been a cathartic experience, and I also gather you’re all helping out with a biography of the band, no doubt giving further opportunities to reflect.

“Yeah, in the sense of the cathartic thing, absolutely it has. It’s impossible not to. We’ve been trying not to write an album that dwells on Covid, because everybody went through that. The thing for us was Cush, and there’s one song that’s completely about him, and his memory is in those songs. It’s not a case of getting it out of your system, but …”

Crowd Pleasers: The Men They Couldn’t Hang at Shepherd’s Bush Empire, 2017 (Photo: Peter Stevens)

It can’t be forced. Those reflections may take a long time to emerge. As you’ve said yourself, you were such a huge part of each other’s lives.

“Yeah, and what makes it different about the Covid aspect is that we’ve all been through deaths in our lives. I lost my father, and lost my mum when I was young, but this happened during a time where you couldn’t go to funerals, and I really understand that word closure now. With Cush’s burial, we had to drive four hours to South Wales, have the funeral then drive back again. You couldn’t go to anyone’s house or get-together. But it was very important to sort of see him put in the ground and bring it home to you that it was real.

“Also, genuinely, I’ve felt his presence on stage at gigs. We all have, we’ve all felt that, and we bring his guitar with us now, have that on stage.”

The book is being compiled by Aaron Chapman, a Canadian writer previously known for publications about Vancouver’s former gangster and club scene, his work mostly Canada-centric. But he’s a long-time fan.

“Yes, to the extent that he couldn’t come into our gig when we played Toronto the first time because he was too young to get in. But he’d followed the band from a distance, and we’ve got to know him. We’ve been talking about it for a couple of years, and now it’s started, using Facebook as a platform to get stories. And we do interviews with him every now and then … telling our different versions of the same events!”

I guess it helps that he’s not too close to the band’s inner circle, therefore – in theory – able to get a clearer perspective on it all.

“Yeah, and if any one of us was to write our own book you’d just get that one point of view. Also, he’s connecting with people we’ve worked with in the past, other musicians, venue owners, DJs, producers, fans, and so on, so there’ll be all these different stories, some of them we won’t even know about … and hopefully they won’t be too awful. Ha!”

Incidentally, Phil also revealed that he’s working on a second songbook – or ‘more than just a songbook’, as he put it.

“Everybody thought during lockdown they’d have this extra time. I don’t know where the time went!”

True. I think I just started more writing projects … mostly unfinished.

“That’s what I did! I started a lot of projects and talked about a lot of projects with other people!”

Despite all the sadness and difficulties, the pandemic proved a relatively creative period for Phil, off the road and out of the studio, a full household at his West London family home ultimately leading to him demolishing a ‘damp old shed full of junk in the backyard’ and building a recording room – ‘my space’, as he put it – where his weekend session with Paul took place.

“What I hope is that I can go in there, shut the door, and most importantly, I’ve got a mic set up, so when I get that idea in the middle of the night, I can go in there with a guitar … and hopefully it will sound all right the next day!”

I guess – like many more of us – you’ve lost a few of those ideas down the years, those that might come to you on a dog-walk, for instance, struggling to keep them in your head until you get home and write it all down or sing into a device.

“Definitely, sometimes I’ve jotted down song ideas on my phone, put it on loop and walked around with one earphone in to get ideas. Other times I’ll get an idea and I’ll have to stop, get my phone out and hum it into my phone for when I get home. I don’t know what the dog thinks about it! He doesn’t mind when he wants to stop, sniff around and all that, but when it’s me, it’s a different story!”

That’s Monty he’s talking about, the first few minutes of our conversation taken up by updates on our respective rescue dogs, in his case ‘a total mongrel who a lot of people think is a Patterdale Terrier’.

“That’s what he looks like, but he’s from Romania. We tried Battersea Dogs’ home for a long time, but we have two cats and it’s not that easy – some of those dogs have particular issues where they’ll need a more experienced owner. So we have Monty, our Romanian refugee.”

Phil and his family live in the borough of Ealing, with ‘lots of green space’ nearby, but also plenty of ‘wild foxes and rabbits, and that sets him off!’. And yet he’s less than seven miles from Shepherd’s Bush, where he first met Cush in the early ‘80s and The Men They Couldn’t Hang took shape.

Back on the subject of Ghosts of Rock’n’Roll, there’s been a pleasing reaction.

“It’s been amazing. And I’m still getting good feedback. I was surprised how well it went down, and the folk chart position. I got a message saying it looked like it was going to chart, and could I send them a bio and a video if I had one. And then it went in at No.5, and I just couldn’t believe it went that high. And with the vinyl …”

Those ongoing delays at pressing plants have become a major issue, leading to disruption regarding dates when vinyl LPs were expected to be released. But finally it seems it’s set to happen in Phil’s case, in time for Record Store Day on June 18th, that version including a couple of tracks not on the CD.

One of many tracks from the album that jumped out at me straight away was his duet with The Long Ryders’ Sid Griffin on Phil Ochs cover, ‘Flower Lady’. Had Swill and Sid known each other a while?

“Yeah, first I think it was us doing the same festivals in mainland Europe, then – especially both living in London – we’d bump into each other at venues like the Mean Fiddler. And I’m a big fan, listening to The Long Ryders but also The Coal Porters, and all that.

“With Phil Ochs, I’d been compared to him over the years, time to time, in my style and some of my songwriting approach, kind of got curious about him, started listening properly, bought a biography about him and got quite obsessed, extremely interested in his life. I’m surprised they haven’t done a film about him. You know, the fact that he was always there, and had people like Bob Dylan looking up to him. He never quite got the recognition he deserved, and had a very troubled life. I got very interested in the idea of doing one of his songs, and decided on ‘Flower Lady’.”

A great choice, and you blend so well with Sid on that version.

“Yeah, and it was so good for Sid to come in, do his stuff, in that short gap during lockdown where you could get together again. And the album was recorded in four or five days. Sid was amazing. He then put bits of harmonica on other stuff, and we just had a laugh. He’s a real gent, the epitome of the American gent, so well-mannered.”

Among the other tracks I love is ‘Early Morning Rain’, which for me has a Jimmy Webb feel.

“I had a couple of Gordon Lightfoot albums, and he wrote that. He’s one of those artists where you get an album, and you know there’ll be three brilliant tracks on there. Like Stan Rogers, if you know him, the guy who wrote ‘Barrett’s Privateers’. But I heard ‘Early Morning Rain’, thought, ‘What a great song!’, and decided to do it. Billy Bragg did a version, not long ago, and when I found out I wavered, but then thought, ‘No, I really want to do this’.”

You’ve definitely made it your own, although there is that Jimmy Webb writing for Glen Campbell thing going on for me. But I suppose that’s not 100 times removed from where you’re at.

“No, and I often find little Glenn Campbell influences coming in, in lyrical ideas or the way of singing a line or playing a bit of a song. I am a fan.”

Thinking forward to your upcoming live shows supporting previous WriteWyattUK interviewee Ian Prowse, do you go back a long way?

“It’s pretty recent, another of those where I’m really surprised we didn’t cross each other or work together before. We did a gig in London a couple of weeks ago, were chatting away in the dressing room, and have lots of people we know in common, and had been on the same label at one point. Often when you go to a new label, they give you a ton of their other artists’ stuff, but I never had any Pele or Amsterdam or Ian Prowse records until recently. And I’d never seen him live.”

Was it his support slots with Elvis Costello that turned you on to his music?

“No, we were both doing online lockdown sessions and had a core of people tuning into mine and his, like a cross-pollination, getting comments from both sides. And he did a version of ‘The Green Fields of France’. Fans on my page were saying I should check out Ian’s page, and his fans the same thing, so we got chatting online, I sent him a copy of my album, and he liked that.

“He was still working on his at the time. The first time we met was playing together in London. I’m also doing one in Liverpool, but get a feeling there will be other things. Our influences are the same … and we’re politically aligned.”

What’s more, (ahem) the day after the Liverpool show (Saturday, May 7th, with details here), Phil’s doing a Sunday session, broadcast live on stage in Nottingham, at a venue called Foreman’s Bar.

Guitar Man: Phil ‘Swill’ Odgers, live with the Men They Couldn’t Hang (Photo: Peter Stevens)

That recent London show included Phil and Ian joining forces on a cover of The Clash’s ‘London Calling’. And seeing as Phil’s worked in the past with, for example, Eliza Carthy and more recently Sid Griffin, maybe there’s a duets LP coming someday, I suggested.

“I would think about doing something like that. That’s in the back of my mind. I’d like to do some more stuff with other people.”

But in the meantime, he’s busy with Paul again.

“Yeah, we spent Saturday working on seven songs or so. We’ve already been in the studio as a full band and recorded one new song for the album, and we’re going again at the end of May, planning to go in several times over the next few months, record one track with a full band for the album, and then we’ll do three tracks that would be the equivalent of B-sides, if you like, a bit more basic.

“Also, Tom (Spencer, lead guitar) came round and listened … and then we got quite drunk. Ha!”

As for Cush, after all those years I guess he’s never far from your thoughts.

“Oh, yeah, and as life gets more closer to ‘normal’, you’re constantly reminded of places you’ve been and things you’ve done.

Quo Quota: Cush and McGuire emulate Rossi and Parfitt, Preston Guild Hall, 2018 (Photo: Michael Porter)

“Because this book idea was coming up, and The Men They Couldn’t Hang were planning a new album and we were talking about an acoustic album, we had a Zoom get-together, the first we’d had … and it was four days after that when I got the call. We just couldn’t believe it.

“Again, because of lockdown it was as if someone was in Australia had gone. If that had been the case before, we’d have just gone out and got together, gone round and seen everyone … but you just couldn’t do it.”

It was a friendship and working relationship lasting almost 40 years, for a band of brothers who met ‘Right Time, Right Place, Right Song’.

“We met in this mental kind of flat we lived at in Shepherd’s Bush, round about the time that The Young Ones was on the telly. That was very much like where we lived! He was a friend of some people living next door, we all got on really well and just decided …

“I was reading an article this morning about bands on the dole and so on, how that was a real kind of inspiration. The article was almost saying if you weren’t a band on the dole, you weren’t really a band! We were all on the dole but didn’t have a band, but found busking a good way to supplement our dole money.”

Was Cush already roadie-ing for The Pogues then?

“Sort of. It all happened so quickly. I don’t know if he was doing it when we first met, but that whole thing exploded so quickly that by the time we were busking he’d been doing gigs with The Pogues, and within the space of just a couple of months or so we went to do our first gig, then we were doing gigs with Elvis Costello, being signed by him. It was all incredibly fast, with no major record company interest. It happened so quickly that it was its own little scene.”

Bush Ranger: ‘Swill’, working on a new The Men They Couldn’t Hang LP. Photo: Frances Mahony

For this website’s previous Phil Odgers feature/interview, from 2018, head here. For details of Phil’s Ghosts of Rock’n’Roll, other solo releases and merchandise go to https://philodgers.bandcamp.com/. For all the latest on The Men They Couldn’t Hang, their back catalogue and future dates, head to https://www.tmtch.co.uk/. And for Dave Jennings’ piece with Swill from last October, head here.

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Singing for those I know – talking Ocean Colour Scene acoustic side-shows with Simon Fowler

Posted on April 14, 2022 by writewyattuk
Scenic Two: Ocean Colour Scene’s Oscar Harrison and Simon Fowler, coming to a town near you very soon

Last time I chatted to Simon Fowler, four years ago, he was walking Cooper, his cockapoo, by the river near his home in Stratford-upon-Avon, not long before heading up to my adopted neck of the woods with Ocean Colour Scene to play Lancaster’s Highest Point Festival.

“Oh right. He was a little puppy then.”

And he’ll be back soon (Simon, that is), this time with bandmate Oscar Harrison for a two-man take on the band’s back-catalogue, the pair currently rehearsing for 25-date acoustic UK tour, An Evening with Simon and Oscar of Ocean Colour Scene, starting on April 29th at Fat Sam’s in Dundee and running through to June 2nd at The Globe in Cardiff.

For those shows, Simon (aka Foxy) sings and play acoustic guitar, and Ocean Colour Scene drummer Oscar also sings and plays piano, bass and percussion, the duo on the back of a sell-out full band UK tour in 2021, but this time playing more intimate seated venues, hopefully including acoustic performances of hits and anthems such as ‘The Riverboat Song’, ‘The Circle’, ‘You’ve Got It Bad’, ‘Better Day’, ‘Travellers Tune’, ‘Hundred Mile High City’, ‘It’s a Beautiful Thing’, ‘Profit in Peace’, ‘So Low’, and ‘The Day We Caught The Train’. So many great songs that formed an integral part of my soundtrack to that second half of the ‘90s … and beyond.

And it turns out they were in Lancashire last week too, playing Blackburn Museum & Art Gallery.

“We did a gig in memory of a great friend of ours who died last year, on the anniversary of his death. His name was Craig Dunstan. Him and his wife Tracy, they’d come and say {adopts a broad Lancashire accent}, ‘You know, this is the 186th time we’ve seen you!’.  They were absolute super-fans, and went in the front car with Chris and Steve Cradock when Steve’s mother died. They were very, very close to us. So Oscar and I did a concert in memory and to raise money for a brain tumour charity, in an incredible venue in Blackburn, like a little theatre above a fantastic little museum.”

I see Paul Weller and his band (including Steve Cradock) were also in Blackburn last week, on his latest tour, playing King George’s Hall. As for Craig and Tracy, that goes to show the enduring love out there for the Scenies (as the fans would have it), a quarter of a century or so after that period in which they seemed to be everywhere, from Chris Evans’ TFI Friday TV show to major Oasis supports, the Weller affiliation, and that whole surge that came with the Britpop movement. But how does Simon look back on those mid-‘90s glory days now?

“Oh, with great fondness. And quite a bit of pride, to be quite honest. It was as good as you can imagine, really.”

I touched on those years with Louise Wener, from Sleeper, recently, someone else party to that inner circle of bands tucked in behind heavyweights Blur and Oasis, moving in similar circles.

Fourmidable Fare: OCS’s Raymond Meade, Simon Fowler, Steve Cradock, and Oscar Harrison

“Yeah … although I didn’t know them. They were kind of the Camden crowd … they were in Blur’s gang, and we were in Paul’s gang!”

Does it all seem a dreamy blur now – no pun intended – looking back on that? Did you get a chance to enjoy it at the time?

“Oh God, yeah … far too much! Haha! I’m glad we did that. We did the whole rock’n’roll show, we really did. We were just about young enough. Well, I was – me and Oscar are four years older than Steve (Cradock) and Damon (Minchella), and I was in my early 30s. But the idea of living that lifestyle now fills me with utter horror! Haha! I mean, the idea of going to a nightclub fills me with dread!”

It all started back in their native Solihull. Who was it that had past involvement with the band Echo Base?

“That was Oscar. They made an album at UB40’s studio, whilst it was being built. And they toured with them on the Geffery Morgan tour, when Oscar would have been about 17.”

What were you doing at the time? Were you aware of them, and did you know Oscar?

“No, I got to know Oscar through the manager we had before Chris Cradock. Oscar joined our band, The Fanatics, which Damon was also in. Then Steve joined us, and we became Ocean Colour Scene. That was in October 1989.”

Simon describes his forthcoming dates with Oscar as ‘a real tonic – a great chance to look the audience in the eye and interact with them on a more personal basis than ever before’, the latest chapter in a winning career.

The afore-mentioned Chris Evans’ support helped, the Scenies doing the pilot show for TFI Friday, its presenter also making ‘The Riverboat Song’ his BBC Radio 1 breakfast show record of the week for two weeks in a row, Top of the Pops performances and much more also regularly popping up.

There were top-10 albums with breakthrough second album Moseley Shoals (1996, No.2) and follow-ups Marchin’ Already (1997, No.1), One from the Modern (1999, No.4) and Mechanical Wonder (2001, No.7), the band also amassing 17 top-40 singles, including a staggering run of nine successive top-20 hits, six of those making the top-10, with a mantelpiece full of awards also coming their way.

They were clearly no overnight success though, having spent half a dozen initial years fine-tuning their sound. And before calling Simon I went back to their self-titled debut album, now 30 years old, and …

“The very first album? Crikey, yeah!”

Indeed, and I feel on a fresh listen that’s stood the test of time, even if it’s not one that gets talked about so much. As it was, they soon parted from the Fontana label and started writing their own material in a Birmingham studio, a period they now see as one where they ‘learnt how to make records rather than just playing two guitars, drum and bass on stage’. Was that earlier period (their first three singles initially came out on the Phffft label, before Fontana snuck in) your apprenticeship of sorts?

“Yes, I guess it was. Also, that’s when we got to know Paul, and that sort of made us. Yeah, that was part of our apprenticeship. And we were with Jimmy Miller, the (Rolling) Stones producer … which actually didn’t really work out because we had too much fun with Jimmy, and he was sacked. Haha!”

There was also a link with Alison Moyet in those days, the former Yazoo star adding guest vocals to ‘Giving It All Away’, one of the singles from the debut LP.  

“Steve went out with Alison’s manager, a lady called Debbie Rawlings. And Alison became part of the gang. She came to my 25th birthday party at the dump where we lived in Birmingham, and proceeded to reverse a Range Rover into the wall and knock it down! Haha!”

A sort of ‘Alf was here’ calling card?

“And we were renting! She was a great laugh, Alison … goodness me!”

You were clearly never just a 15-minute fad, and listening back to that first album I hear those folk-rock roots and ‘60s influences, but much more too. And those were qualities you prided yourself upon really, weren’t they?

“Well, yeah, and now Oscar and I are doing this acoustic tour, that is essentially closer to how the songs were written. Much closer, because I wrote all the songs on an acoustic guitar with a little Sony tape player and a notepad. That’s how they were written, and then the others turned it into Ocean Colour Scene.”

All these years on, the fact that you weren’t fly-by-night successes is perhaps reflected in the amount of Ocean Colour Scene records still on my CD shelves, between Oasis, Orange Juice, OMD, The Orchids, and Otis Redding. In fact, there’s a wealth of albums you made that you can be rather proud of.

“Thank you. I think so, yeah.”

And behind the occasional swagger and layers of style, there were those great songs, the words and melodies finding their way into heads and hearts, ones we can now experience in that stripped-back format.

“Yeah, I hope so. A good example is ‘The Circle’, which we play as a ballad. That’s probably one of my favourite songs we do live. And it’s one of my favourite songs I’ve ever written.”

I wouldn’t disagree with that. Such a great song. As for the afore-mentioned Paul Weller, he latched on to you pretty early. Do you remember the first time you heard he was interested in your band?

“Yeah, Steve had always been a big, big fan. And it’s incredible, the path Steve’s life has taken, because they’re now best friends. He absolutely idolised Paul, and we ended up recording that first album initially at Solid Bond, which was Paul’s studio.”

That was near Marble Arch in London, long before Paul headed back to his Surrey roots to set up Black Barn.

“That’s how we ended up working with Brendan (Lynch) on the second album, because we got to know Brendan and Max (Beesley) through Paul, who were doing an album, Roads to Freedom, with Carleen Anderson’s band, Young Disciples.

“Brendan was doing that album whilst we were doing the album with Jimmy Miller. And by ‘93, Steve was in Paul’s band, and he’s been there ever since. Also, I went on the tours, around Britain and Europe as the support man. So I played the Albert Hall on my own, with songs like ‘The Day we Caught the Train’, before the band played that venue. That that really was a great apprenticeship … thanks to Paul.”

Having played those larger venues and big outdoor shows, it must offer a fresh buzz to be able to play those more intimate venues like those you have coming up on this tour with Oscar.

“Yeah, we like that, me and Os. Also, we can sit down! Haha! We are both 56, for Christ’s sake!”

And only just. Oscar turns 57 this weekend (April 15th), with Simon following suit within six weeks (May 25th). Do you tend to tell a few stories each night?

“Yeah, I like doing that.”

How about Oscar – does he pipe in, put you right on a few things?

“He normally tells me to shut up and get on with the act!”

I was talking last week to Neil Sheasby from Stone Foundation, and Paul Weller not only invites his band back time and again to record their LPs at Black Barn, but it seems he can’t help chipping in with vocals and instrumentation here and there.

“He’s a workaholic, isn’t he!”

True. Have you got a similar work ethic?

“Well … not really. Haha! I haven’t written for quite a while, but I’ve got a load of lyrics I’ve been working on. They’re kind of poems, but they need to be turned into songs. So maybe I’ll try and do that. Mind you, this year we’re kind of busy.”

I’m guessing as a band you’ve stayed pretty close, at least as friends, if not geographically … and you and Oscar aren’t so far from each other.

“Yeah, Oscar lives in Birmingham, while I live near Stratford-upon-Avon. Actually, Oscar’s meant to be over here now, because we’re doing something for Record Store Day, then we’re rehearsing upstairs in my little studio room.”

That Record Store Day engagement on April 23rd ties in with the re-release of hit album, Live on the Riverboat, from 20 years ago, recorded on the Renfrew ferry, which operates on the Clyde. Hence their visit to Strip Joint Records in Glasgow to mark the occasion. As for future Scenies dates (these days with Raymond Meade on bass), is it a case of meticulous checking of diaries, not least with Steve’s itinerary with Paul?

“Well, yeah, Steve’s with Paul at the moment. Then Ocean Colour Scene have some festivals over the summer. As have Oscar and I. But at the moment we’re concentrating on this tour, which is 25 dates … and we haven’t done that for years.”

Including a few on my adopted patch. And when you’re writing songs and lyrics, do you tend to think some are for the band and some for other projects?

“I never think that, because Ocean Colour Scene have a range which includes all of that. I think probably my favourite album is the B-sides album. And that’s sort of more akin to what Oscar and I are doing really.”

Incidentally, having written this interview up now, a number of OCS CDs still surround me, and I’ve moved that 1997 compilation, B-Sides, Seasides & Freerides (their other top-10 LP, reaching No.4) a little closer, with a view to revisiting it soon as I have a chance.

Do you think there might be a new album coming in the next year or so?

“There might.”

You’re not ruling it out.

“No, I’ll just see if I can drag my way from the Peroni!”

And how is Cooper?

“He’s great.”

Keeping you fit?

Dynamic Duo: Oscar Harrison and Simon Fowler see the funny side of their acoustic tour itinerary

“Well, I wish. I can’t walk that well actually. I’ve got a bad hip. That’s why I’ve had to drop the Mick Jagger moves a little bit recently. He hasn’t though, and he’s 78 … bastard! I hate him!”

Maybe he’s not having to walk a dog every day.

“He’s probably got someone to do that. But he does run about 10 miles a day, doesn’t he? He used to run around Richmond Park. I never saw him. I used to live in Ham. I’d run into Pete Townshend practically every day, and we sort of became pals. He’s just sold the house actually. He lives almost opposite where Mick lives. And Jerry Hall, who took over the main house in the split. I never bumped into Mick though, but I’d love to.”

There is another Stones link, the Scenies supporting them in Stuttgart, Germany, at one point, Simon saying in another interview they were thrilled about that, but never met them, adding, ‘There were two stadiums in the city and a football match at one of them. So our dressing rooms were two miles away and somehow, in all the logistics, we never got to shake Mick’s hand.’

On the Pete Townshend front though, there must have been a fair few moments like that when you thought, ‘How’s this lad from Birmingham got here?’.

“Oh, I know. I still think it’s absolutely absurd. Mind you, when I was a journalist, I interviewed Muhammad Ali. So beat that one! Haha! That was for the Birmingham Post & Mail. I was doing   work experience there and ended up as a journalist on the Post and Mail for four years, I’d have joined the paper in … it must have been September ‘83.”

Glad you didn’t carry on with that?

“Yeah, I knew within a fortnight I didn’t like being shouted at by small sub-editors. They were always small, and they were always far better than me at their job! I thought, ‘I’m out of my depth here. I don’t like this’. I wanted to be a football commentator. That’s why I became a journalist. I wanted to be John Motson … and within a fortnight I wanted to be John Lennon.”

Well, he clearly found his path soon enough, and getting on for 33 years later all four members of the band are still going somewhere, just like the narrator of ‘The Circle’.

To head back to this website’s May 2018 feature/interview with Simon Fowler, head here.

An Evening with Simon and Oscar of Ocean Colour Scene dates: April 29th – Dundee, Fat Sam’s; 30th – Aberdeen, Lemon Tree. May 1st – Glasgow, Oran Mor; 2nd – Edinburgh, Liquid Rooms; 5th – Stockton-on-Tees, ARC; 6th – Newark, The Palace; 7th – Stamford, Corn Exchange; 8th – Sheffield, City Hall; 10th – Whitley Bay, Playhouse; 11th – Buxton, Opera House; 12th – Corby, The Core; 13th – Bridlington, Spa; 15th – Southend, Palace Theatre; 16th – Bury St Edmunds, The Apex; 17th – London, Islington Union Chapel; 19th – Ilkley, Kings Hall; 20th – Lytham-St-Annes, Lowther Pavilion; 21st – Manchester, RNCM; 22nd – Burnley, Mechanics; 24th – Bristol, St George’s; 26th – Bexhill, De La Warr Pavilion; 27th – Harpenden, Public Halls; 28th – Shrewsbury, Theatre Severn; 29th – Birmingham, Town Hall. June 2nd – Cardiff, The Globe. Tickets are available from venue box offices and Ticketmaster. You can also find out more via www.oceancolourscene.com and keep in touch with the band’s happenings via Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

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Outside status, inside track – celebrating the continuing rise of Stone Foundation, with Neil Sheasby

Posted on April 8, 2022 by writewyattuk
Soul Cookin’: Stone Foundation, heading your way on the back of Outside Looking In, their latest hit LP

For a fourth straight album release, Stone Foundation managed to score a top-40 hit last weekend, despite no major label backing, this eight-piece Midlands-based soul band entering the UK charts at No.27 with Outside Looking In, following similar success for the previous three long players they made at good friend and creative collaborator Paul Weller’s Black Barn Studios in Surrey.

But while they again joined the big league, on the back of similar commercial as well as critical kudos with Street Rituals (2017, No.25), Everybody, Anyone (2018, No.30) and Is Love Enough? (2020, No.39), don’t go thinking it’s a case of ‘more of the same’. In fact, every time they move on somewhat, a fresh and creative approach to their craft keeping them up where they belong.

This, their 10th studio album (released as with those most recent LPs on 100 Percent Records), continues their rich vein of form. But it’s been hard graft all the way, co-founders Neil Jones (guitar, vocals) and Neil Sheasby (bass) at the heart of the band for 24 years now, chopping and changing as they go, building on – as their band name suggests – that solid base, for an ever-growing and incredibly loyal fanbase.

And Stone Foundation remain very much a band, this soulful collective priding itself on its collaborative spirit and inclusive approach, Outside Looking In remaining true to their manifesto.

Once again, the afore-mentioned Paul Weller was on hand for key vocal and instrumental touches, this LP also featuring a guest lead vocal from legendary disco diva Melba Moore (on ‘Now That You Want Me Back’, also a single) as well as equally important contributions from Sulene Fleming, Laville, Sheree Dubois and Graziella Affinita.

What’s more, they remain determined not to sit back on past successes, as some of the fresh approaches on this latest record suggest. As Sheas put it (I’ll call him that in print to avoid confusion with namesake bandmate, Jonesy), “When creating music, the goal is always to recreate the sound you’re imagining in your head. Sometimes it’s achievable, sometimes you fall short. With this record I believe it’s the closest we’ve come to realising what we set out to achieve.

“It was important to push ourselves, and not get caught up in a musical cul-de-sac of complacency. It had to sound fresh and a leap forward into uncharted territory. I think the songs reflect that.”

That they do, for what Jonesy reckons is ‘one of our most optimistic and uplifting records to date’, their frontman adding, “We’ve all experienced so many negative things over the past few years and it was really important for us whilst writing this record to not dwell on the past but instead look forward to the future and all the amazing possibilities that lie ahead for everyone.

“Musically and lyrically, it feels completely fresh and exciting, like a brand-new chapter in our ever-evolving story.”

Vinyl Countdown: The two Neils, Jones and Sheasby, with the new Stone Foundation LP

The result? Another big step forward for an octet continuing to graft and make their own luck, and these days receiving more national airplay via the likes of BBC 6 Music and BBC Radio 2, as well as rave reviews from a range of publications, and plenty of love on the road from that fanbase. Incidentally, not long before I knocked this feature live, I read the latest of Sheas’ wonderful ‘Bass Notes’ on social media, and he wrote, ‘It feels a bit Duran Duran saying ‘fanbase’. I prefer ‘following’, although that makes us sound like a cult – which isn’t that far off the mark, I suppose’.

And yet, as the new LP title suggests, while now firmly established, establishment they are not, their underdog spirit remaining intact, as became clear from my latest chat with Sheas, first joking that I was surprised he even answered the phone to me, on the back of this latest chart success.

“Ah mate, none of that nonsense!”

I was lucky to catch him, Sheas with domestic duties while a couple of bandmates attended an in-store album launch show on the south coast, at Pie and Vinyl in Southsea, Jonesy and Dave Boraston (trumpet) stepping up, part of a week of in-store performances in association with record shops, another example of their work ethic behind the scenes, in keeping with that accountability to their supporters but also a way to help bolsters sales during the week of release, all registering towards those final chart positions.

And while they can clearly mix and match with regards to membership these days, if they need to, I’m still in awe, I told Sheas, at how all eight of them managed to fit on a comparatively tiny stage when I saw them live on my old patch at Boileroom in Guildford last autumn (with my review here), another stonking night for this great live act, which as well as the two Neils and Dave Boraston also involves Phil Ford on drums, Ian Arnold on keyboards, Rob Newton on percussion, Steve Trigg, also on trumpet, and Anthony Gaylard, saxophone.

“They are great fun, these events, but I couldn’t make this one. I had to take my lad to the airport for his holiday … and I play football on a Monday night.”

As for that chart success – the band also in at No.3 in the indie album chart and No.4 in the vinyl chart – how does it feel (as Noddy Holder and Jim Lea would put it)?

“The thing is, we’re not too hung up on chart positions. It’s a lovely thing, because you’re up against not just the download things like Adele, Elton John, Queen, or whatever, but … well, look at the companies, you’ve got Universal, Warner’s, Sony … and here we are, pretty much hand-to-mouth on a lovely little indie label. So it seems like a little victory.”

Turntable Warriors: Stone Foundation’s Neil Sheasby and Neil Jones on the wheels of steel
He knows this all the better from past days working in and managing record shops in the Midlands, albeit with that ‘80s and ‘90s world very different to how the music industry is now.

“It’s weird now, how the chart’s set up. Then, it was just new releases. But then they changed it to reflect what people were listening to, including downloads … so it could be Dark Side of the Moon in at No.10. But in the physical, new chart, if you look at new releases, we were actually No.6, if you take away everything released ages ago. It’s a real result for us and for the people that follow us. They’re part of it. It’s them that’s done it. We just put the records out!

“I thought this might be the difficult album, actually, because we changed tact a little bit, purposely, wanting to challenge ourselves, not knowing whether people would be on board with it … but it’s been received incredibly well.”

Quite right too, and I’ve enjoyed all their more recent albums, particularly since that Weller-backed era (and let’s face it, that’s when I became aware of them). And every time they’ve done something different, taking themselves into new, far from safe territory, somehow pulling it off.

“I think we have to. If we’re just resting on our laurels and it’s a case of, ‘Let’s just make another record with Paul Weller,’ we’d be doing ourselves a disservice. We have to challenge ourselves.”

Seeing the band were in the top 10 halfway through that first week, I did wonder if Ed Sheeran would release a couple of LPs a day later and they’d be down a few places. There was also the sad news about Taylor Hawkins, suggesting Foo Fighters would go on to bag all the top spots. But Stone Foundation were still in that top 30 a few days later. And what might have helped was an online message from Weller himself, saying he’d taken advantage of a special £4.99 digital download price for the record. In fact, he told them, in inimitable style,  ‘Good luck with the album, comrades. I’ve just had £4.99 worth. Fiver for an album? Fuck me, amazing! Anyway, I’ll be blasting it on our tour bus’.

As for Stone Foundation, their next full tour is set for autumn, with details being announced fairly soon, but there are opportunities to see them before, with a mini-tour about to get going, plus festival and outdoor dates lined up this summer.

But now, a bit more about the new LP, track by track with Sheas, starting with opening number, ‘Soon You’ll Return’. As a band, they’ve made a point of saying they’re all about looking forward rather than dwelling on the shit-show of the last few years – from politics to pandemic – but I get the feeling this opener provides a bridge, covering that move away from everything negative that’s happened in recent years. Am I anywhere on the money?
Ritual Confrontation: Neil Sheasby, left, and co-founder Neil Jones, up close and personal, back in the day

“No. Haha! It was written pre-pandemic, actually. But yeah, it was a song that was developing, and it soon became apparent that it fitted that sentiment. What I should make clear is that the first two songs, and really the bulk of this record, came out of a project me and Neil were asked to do, to go to America to write and produce an album for other voices.

“It was going to be at Al Green’s studio. We were due to go in April 2020, right when it all kicked off. So that was curtailed. It was looking like it may get rescheduled, then it became obvious this was going to be more than just a couple of months of unpleasantness and travelling restrictions, and it all got scrapped.

“So we had these songs. ‘Soon You’ll Return’ was one, (second track) ‘Turning Up the Hurt’ was another. We worked them up in a demo form with Phil and Ian, went back to the demos and thought, ‘These songs are decent. This could actually be our next record. Let’s go back, look at the arrangements and get back into these, even though the intention was going into this American session with Boo Mitchell, which would have been tremendous, but …”

Was that where Al Green recorded his classic Hi Records albums with the late great Willie Mitchell?

“Yes, Boo Mitchell is his son, and still runs it, in Memphis. Unfortunately, that project was scrapped. I don’t know if that will happen again or not, that moment’s passed. But we then had these tunes and it became apparent to us that those first two songs should almost be one, linked almost together at the start.

“While ‘Outside Looking In’ is not connected to them, there’s only six chords between those three songs. Very Ramones-esque! And we thought, ‘This really fits, this really works’. At first, we thought, ‘Maybe this needs a bridge’. But it doesn’t, because of the dynamic of the arrangement.”

Very true. And I hate to use the word smooth, so instead I’ll say it’s a soulful way into the record, and from my first listen I felt there was something of a Marvin Gaye feel, circa What’s Going On? Accordingly, I thought that’s where it’s going as an album. But as it turned out, you go elsewhere before finally coming back for ‘Somewhere a Voice’, the last track, which also has that opening vibe.

Looking Up: Stone Foundation, keen to get back out there on the live circuit

“Well, there you go. That was from the same sessions. But we just had it in our heads that it should start with a BV, so we knew we were going to ask Laville, Graziella and Sheree to do that at Paul’s gaff. We had them in for a day or so. We felt we should have that kind of haunted start with the voices. But when they actually did it, we were like, ‘Fucking hell, this is it! This is definitely it!’. And with ‘Somewhere a Voice’, funnily enough, when we set up the first day in Black Barn, and were soundchecking the tunes, we just warmed up, trying to get the sound for that song, played it, went back into the control room to listen, and went, ‘Fuck me, that’s the take! That’s it!’ So the first thing we played became the last track on the album!”

Earlier, I was going to put tongue firmly in cheek and mention your ‘overnight success’, knowing full well it’s taken almost a quarter of a century to get where you are. And its clear that you have this chemistry these days where you can do those kind of one-take tracks. Because you know what you want and how to go about doing it, having been together so long. Seamless moments borne out of some kind of intuition.

“I think that’s a credit to the band as well. Me and Neil, over the course of nearly 25 years, we’ve changed bands quite often because, you know, people have not quite been at the races for where we want to go next. But thankfully, we’ve found a line-up, as used for Street Rituals, so that’s been … five years? And it’s just worked. I’ve played with Phil for years, since we were kids. But the horn section as well, they just get it – they get the arrangements and where we’re going with all this. They just get it – bang on – where we want to move with it. So that’s a big part of it as well.”

So much of it threads together, from Ian’s keyboard touches to that solid bass and drums rhythm partnership with Phil. But there’s also a subtlety coming through now, not least with Jonesy’s voice, often underplayed here, and all the more powerful for that.

“I agree. He’s not in a rush to impress. It’s not OTT. I was really pleased with the way it all came out. It’s one album where the sound in your head that me and him have … We’re quite intuitive, in tune with each other, and get ideas, but to get that out and make it sound exactly like what you were trying to do is a difficult process. I was really pleased when we finished this record, sat back and listened, and said, ‘Do you know what – I think we’ve got this!’.

“Take (title track) ‘Outside Looking In’. People say it sounds like Talking Heads, and it does …

Well, that saves me mentioning that again!

“Thanks! But we set out to get a NYC vibe, like James Chance, thinking, ‘Wouldn’t it be great to make something a bit edgy like that’. You know, new wave, but funky. So it was more that than Talking Heads. But it come out that way and we thought that was quite ambitious, even though it’s fairly simple – again, just a two-chord progression. But it’s the way you play it, the way you execute it, playing these mad things in the studio!”

The Landlord: Neil Jones with Paul Weller, together in live action

That includes that amazing breakdown towards the back end, which reminds me a little of your studio landlord, Mr Weller, when he’s in more experimental jazz-soul territory.

“Maybe. I hadn’t thought of that.”

While I’m handing out the plaudits, I was really impressed last time I caught your brass lads live. There are hints of Graham Parker’s The Rumour for me … a band I regret not seeing in their prime. And your trio come over so well on this LP,  again with touches of ‘less is more’ subtlety, like the sax on the opening song, and the mute trumpet on ‘Movin’ On’.

“Yeah, it works nice that, doesn’t it, that trade-off between the two of them. Again, that’s credit to them and their understanding of what we need. And it’s not just us and the brass section, you know. With the Graham Parker comparison, it’s a bit like that. It’s very much a band really, like The Rumour were.”

Onto ‘Now That You Want Me Back’. How did the link with Melba Moore come about? In this country, most people just know her for 1976 hit ‘This Is it’, while others will know of her from the Northern Soul scene. What made you think she’d be right for this?

“We always like to have at least one collaboration, because we like the idea of it, and that was the tune. When we finished it, we thought maybe this is the one to get a female voice on, a soul diva thing. I was more interested in her ‘80s records really. And she popped up on our Instagram timeline. We watched this footage of her singing, and she’s got this incredible voice still. She looks great as well, and a friend of ours knew her manager … who turned out to be her partner. So, as always, we just pitched in, and it was put to her that this English modern soul band had a song they’d put forward with consideration for Melba’s vocal. And when she heard it, she said, ‘I’m bowled over by it. This is great, it’s gonna work!’.

“Actually, when we first sent it to Melba, she said it was far too low for her register, so we had to take it up a few notches, having to re-record the guitar and keyboard parts. She was good enough to do the video as well, and it just worked.”

It sure does. Now, don’t take this the wrong way, but there was something else there that I was reminded of … and then I got it – a more soulful take on Fleetwood Mac’s ‘Dreams’, not least your bassline threading its way through.

Live Foundation: The band in live action, and coming to a town near you

“Really? Ah, okay. That’s a bit weird, but yeah. I love the sound of that record. I play it now and again. It’s one of the best sounding records, I reckon. And the bass on that is amazing.”

Perhaps it’s subconsciously written into your DNA somewhere.

“Maybe. An interesting comparison!”

‘I Need Your Love’ keeps that groove going, and then there’s another single, ‘Echoes of Joy’, where you’re almost into piano driven Balaeric beats, at least a Blow Monkeys take on that. That stemmed from me messing about in lockdown. My kids were about, and my middle son, Lowell, who’s into his music and was studying, he’d been in his room for days on end and I said, ‘Come on, let’s go for a walk, you’ve been ages playing your Xbox’, and he said, ‘I’m actually working out this (Apple) Logic program, recording. Do you want to hear something?’. He played me it, and I was like, ‘Fuck!’.

“We started messing around, recorded a few bits, just for fun, and that was one of the things I had the idea of, this ‘Echoes of Joy’ beat, this chorus going ‘round me head! I said, ‘Let me put this down!’ and we had a bit of a sample of piano, and he did the beat … as you’ll see on the credits for a few of the songs. And it started with that track.

“Neil then came up with the bridge, and it took on a life of its own. We demoed it up at our studio, then took it to the (Black) Barn. It’s just trial and error really.”

Back to ‘Movin’ On’, and there’s a Curtis Mayfield feel for me, and there’s a great example of Neil’s vocal being more understated, and how I really like that.

“Do you know, he did that vocal, we played it back in the Barn, put the big speakers up, and I turned to him and said, ‘Y’know what, mate, I think that’s your best vocal! I thought if Terry Callier was still alive, I think that would have been a perfect song for him. But I love Neil’s vocal.”

Lining Up: Stone Foundation, having freshly delivered Outside Looking In

Then you move on again, with a Superbad ‘70s soul feel to Stylin’.

“Yeah, we had the riff first, then coloured it all in. I did the verse, Neil the chorus. A perfect example of how Neil and I work. I’ll say, I’ve got this bit, I’ve got the verse, he’ll say, ‘Okay, this will fit this’. And off he goes. We’ve always got melodies, and thankfully they glue together.”

Sulene Fleming features with a guest vocal. She’s been part of the set-up for a while now.

“Yeah, Neil met her through the Monk’s Road project (led by Dr Robert, of Blow Monkeys fame). She come on board to do some stuff with Is Love Enough? Wejust kept on, and it works. With that, we thought, ‘This is kind of like a Betty Davis thing. And who do we know who can pull that trick off? Okay, Sulene! On the deluxe version of the CD, there’s a hidden track, ‘Stylin’, Pt.2’, he really moves away on that one. That was fun to record.”

‘Feel the Colours’ is another departure. For me, there’s a ‘Digging Your Scene’ vibe. It’s a great pop song. It should be the next single.

“I think that’s the double-tracked sax. We went to record ‘Back to My Roots’ as a one-off a good while back, and on that session we recorded ‘Feel the Colours’, totally different. Initially it was a kind of ballad with piano. Paul played piano on it. But when we got home, we thought no, this isn’t right. Sounds a bit pedestrian. But we liked the song, thought let’s not discard it. That could have easily got chucked out of the sessions, but then we thought, ‘What if we do like a slow ‘Young Americans’ thing and double-track the sax? And it worked.”

That sax conjures up an ‘80s video played all over MTV, but there’s far more to it than that commercial appeal. Actually, it’s almost anthemic, perhaps more than anything else you’ve done. It’s potentially your biggest hit so far.

“You think? That’s Weller’s favourite, apparently, he texted to say ‘Feel the Colours’ is my favourite at the minute. So there you go. Maybe you should do the video then!” There’s a challenge. And then we have ‘Heaven Knows Why’. There’s a mid-‘80s feel to me, and I could hear that bursting out of a radio on a hot summer’s day. On that, you have Laville and Sheree Dubois guesting.

“Yeah, that was another destined for the US sessions they called back, we thought let’s look at this again … and I’m glad we did.”

And then ‘Reach Up Higher’, which leads to your ‘Somewhere a Voice’ finale, something else coming to mind there, shades of Anita Baker’s ‘Sweet Love’, again mid-‘80s.

“Oh right, yeah. I was probably listening a little to Dennis Edwards, that bassline kind of hints at that. Again, Neil came up with the hook and chorus, me and Lowell played around with it, getting that Soul II Soul feel. We took it to the band, and Phil said, ‘I think it should be like a Washington Go-go kind of beat, so that’s what that turned into. I added the verses, Neil the choruses, and Neil the other bit that to me sounded a bit like Minnie Ripperton.

“When we finished it, we thought it needed someone else to sing it. It was a bit high for Neil’s register. That’s why we brought the girls (Sheree Dubois and Graziella Affinito) and Laville in. Graziella works a lot with Laville, so he introduced us. And they were great.”

Well, congratulations all round, not just on the chart placing, but on another great record. It’s fair to say you’ve moved successfully on again, clearly not looking to play it safe and give us more of the same.

“Yeah, thank you, mate. It feels that way. It feels like it’s a step in a different direction. And we’ve started the next one already!”

And is your Birmingham O2 Academy finale rounding off your April mini-tour being treated as a celebration close to home ground?

“It’s always nice to play locally, and get a few local faces. And Arthur Tapp is a good promoter. He’s been promoting us since we started, including our previous bands. He’s been promoting gigs I’ve been involved with for 30 years, so definitely the 24 years of Stone Foundation.

“But we enjoy them all, Malc. We really do. We just enjoy playing.”

For this website’s 2017 feature/interview with Neil Sheasby, head here. For our 2020 feature/interview with Neil Jones, try here. Outside Looking In is available digitally and on a range of physical CD and vinyl formats. Meanwhile, the band’s mini-tour starts tonight at Newcastle Hoochie Coochie (Friday 8th), followed by Leicester Musician (Sunday 10th), Darlington Forum (Friday 15th), Stoke Sugarmill (Saturday 16th), Porthtowan Mount Pleasant Eco Park (Friday 22nd), and Birmingham O2 Academy (Friday 29th). For ticket details and all the latest from the band, check out their website here.

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